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J0hn-Stuart-Mill

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Saturday, July 14th 2012, 1:48pm

Vehicle Popularity by Platform

Alright, so since there was so much interest in my Weapon Popularity by Platform thread, a few people asked me why I didn't also do the same for vehicles. My answer was because vehicles are used in very different ways from each other, so different that it is hard to come up with a way to show relevant graphs.

Here are just a few ways that vehicle data is distorted: (loosely sorted by order of how much they influence the data)

1.) Vehicles appear in drastically different proportions for each map.
2.) Vehicles appear in drastically different proportions for each platform.
3.) Vehicles appear in drastically different proportions for each game mode.
4.) Vehicles appear in drastically different proportions for different game sizes.
5.) Vehicles themselves differ in attributes. (ex: Viper being more nimble than the Havoc)
6.) The US is always attacker in Rush, so more attacker oriented vehicles for them, and more defense oriented for Russians
7.) Some vehicles require a larger number of players to effectively use (ex: Transport Heli ideally needs 3, and that is easier to find on 64p PC games)
8.) Some vehicles are rendered less potent by the routine presence of other vehicles (best example: scout helis on PC face Attack Helis, and MAA more frequently than console)
9.) Some unique vehicle types only exist for the US team (AMTRAC, F35)

Despite these obvious differences, there are still neat things we can see in the usage data. Once again my data is proportional, and each graph is relative to itself. Also, a select few transport vehicles ALSO appear in other categories, they are:
* Amtrac appears in both transport and Armor graphs
* Transport Helis appear in both Transport and Air graphs

Methodology - What you're looking at is total numbers of players who have used vehicles past 100 kills, and 1,000 kills. Loads of people don't use vehicles at all, so I chose a 100 kill threshold because I wanted to show all vehicle use. Since vehicle dogtags aren't kill based, there is no "uneven stat phenomenon caused by the dogtags themselves, so 100 and 1,000 gave the best numbers. I also recorded 5,000 kills for each (for future use) but so far the 5,000 kill numbers aren't super relevant. Below, where the graphs switch to TOTAL KILLS, that shows total kills by each vehicle or vehicle class, and includes all players at all experience levels.

*** All data scraped from bf3stats.com on 7/12/2012 ***




Takeaways from Armor -
* LAV-AD Very Rare on Console Maps (Wake, Primarily)
* MBTs are way the most likley vehicle for anyone to go over 1,000 kills with. They are abundant on most maps, never a wait to get one, and very potent




Takeaways from Air Vehicles -
* You can clearly see why the MAV roadkill nerf was so necessary. Players who got good with it, got REALLY good with it.
* I think I'm most surprised that Attack Helis account for substantially more kills than Jets on all platforms, despite there being more jets in nearly all game scenarios
* Scout Helis are WAAY more relevant on console, as they have fewer enemies there, rarely face attack helis face to face, and in general are used on the smaller console sized maps.
* Conquest Jets do less killing on console. Makes sense, one third the players + lower resolution means much harder to spot enemies
* I included the Stationary AAs here because I think its important to show their numbers relative to air vehicle numbers.




Takeaways from Transport Vehicles -
* Amtrac clearly plays a more important role on Console, (and smaller maps in general)
* I have no idea why the Hummer would be so much more dominant on PC
* The venom obviously more effective on PC, both three man team + easier to aim effectively from a frantically maneuvering Venom with a mouse

----------

In addition, I decided to graph some team based differences, Russian Vehicles vs US vehicles. For this I removed any vehicle that appears for both teams (Boat, Skid Loader, Mortar, MAV). From here down these graphs are TOTAL kills, as opposed to just number of players at each kill threshold.



Takeaways from US vs RU vehicles -
* The T-90 simply appears on more maps
* The Viper Dominates the Havoc (with pre patch handling differences)
* The Little Bird edges out the Z-11, on PC despite appearing in the same proportions... this is a handling issue, the Little Bird is more nimble and responsive
* Of course, only the US gets the Amtrac


Very strangely, (not shown by the graphs) the US vehicles on PC do 15% MORE killing than the Russian vehicles. However, on 360, the US vehicles only do 5% more killing, while on PS3 the US vehicles do 3% LESS killing than Russian vehicles. There was no good way to graph this without just showing you a giant wall of hard to explain numbers, so I did the analysis, and here's what accounts for this seemingly bizarre difference:

The PC's 15 percent advantage to US vehicles is completely due to the combination of the Viper being used to greater success (both more agile than the Havoc, and more targets on PC than on console) And the rest of the difference is thanks to PCs getting the US MAA on many many more maps than consoles. Consoles almost never get the US MAA, but on PC it's on nearly every conquest map with air vehicles. Back before the MAA main cannon nerf, the American MAA was both as fast as an LAV and carried the deadliest anti-infantry gun in the game which could easily mow down a row of 5 infantry in less than a second. The Tunguska has always been a slow turd, which meant it couldn't go on the offensive vs infantry quite as easily and dodge RPGs left and right like an LAV can.

The PS3's Russian vehicle advantage is 100% due to the T-90 being used 7% more on the PS3 than the other two platforms. Perhaps this is a result of PS3 players preferring certain maps, or certain game modes, but the T-90's numbers alone make up this difference.



Takeaways from vehicle classes -
* I'm actually very surprised to see Attack Helis killing more than Jets, even when measured in total kills.
* I'm also surprised that (jet kills + heli kills) = (armor kills) !!, even despite fewer numbers jets and helis and SO much armor, seemingly.
* Note that the MAA's have 5% to 10% of the kill counts that helis and jets have.

--------

So my Weapon thread was super popular, and I got an absurd 60 something rep for it. So I don't need any more, but if you must rep someone, I have ideas..... Take your repping pointer over here, and get to work. This is the best thread in the forum, and it doesn't get enough love -



Start by repping Symthic, for that thread alone, and then any of those threads listed you feel deserve it. Most of them were created before the reputation system was implemented here, and so most have gone un-appreciated. So its simple, pick a few of those threads you find most helpful and rep them.
My father used to say, We find our true friends on the Battlefield! - J0hn Snow

This post has been edited 6 times, last edit by "J0hn-Stuart-Mill" (Aug 16th 2012, 9:35pm)


Aenonar

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Saturday, July 14th 2012, 2:29pm

Is it just me or did the F18 have a helluva lot more kills than the Su-35? oO Kinda hard to see the colors.. But Su-35 and Havoc had almost the same color and amount of kills so yeah.. ;o

Nvm, that was the Viper ;o That's kinda weird though... Whenever there's a Viper there's a Havoc.. Except Wake Rush I guess... *shrugs*

Frogfoot also has a helluva lot more kills than the A10, though I guess there are more attacking vehicles than defenders, plus more exposed..

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InternationalGamer

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Saturday, July 14th 2012, 2:46pm

Is it just me or did the F18 have a helluva lot more kills than the Su-35? oO Kinda hard to see the colors.. But Su-35 and Havoc had almost the same color and amount of kills so yeah.. ;o

Nvm, that was the Viper ;o That's kinda weird though... Whenever there's a Viper there's a Havoc.. Except Wake Rush I guess... *shrugs*

Frogfoot also has a helluva lot more kills than the A10, though I guess there are more attacking vehicles than defenders, plus more exposed..

The A-10 has much less kills because to one point, it was glitched where non of it kills would count and the points would directly go to the class you were using.

J0hn-Stuart-Mill

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Saturday, July 14th 2012, 2:50pm

Is it just me or did the F18 have a helluva lot more kills than the Su-35? oO Kinda hard to see the colors.. But Su-35 and Havoc had almost the same color and amount of kills so yeah.. ;o
Good question - so the easiest way to tell the colors apart is to realize that the legend lists the items in CLOCKWISE fashion around the pie chart..... so the first one always starts at "12:00" and rotates clockwise with each additional slice of the pie.

Nvm, that was the Viper ;o That's kinda weird though... Whenever there's a Viper there's a Havoc.. Except Wake Rush I guess... *shrugs*
Yea, so the differences between the Viper and the Havoc are simply a result of Havoc handling, and that both impeding players, as well as making some douchey K/D loving pilots so aggravated that they refused to even fly the Havoc.

Frogfoot also has a helluva lot more kills than the A10, though I guess there are more attacking vehicles than defenders, plus more exposed..
Gamer is correct, but also the flow of Rush gameplay has an impact.... The attackers routinely get more vehicles than the defenders, AND the attackers (if the game is to last at all) are taking every vehicle they can, and charging forward) - these are all easy frogfoot kills. The A-10 however, faces both fewer vehicles, AND a good A10 pilot often scares away the vehicle drivers, and the defenders resort to non vehicle defense methods (soflam, mines, C4, etc)
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Saturday, July 14th 2012, 3:00pm

The Havoc was terrible before patch compared to its counterpart the Viper before patch.
Turning that thing was such a pain, especially when you wanted to re intercept target.

I'm also surprised at why the Z-11 has way less kills than the Little Bird on the consoles?
Noshahr Rush is the only map where you can get the Little Bird without the Z-11, could take make such a big difference.
Hell, in Damavand Peak Rush, theres only a Z-11 at the start, you can only get the Little Bird after the second base has been destroyed.

Now, as for the PC, why are there such little Scout kills? There are more maps with the Scouts in PC.
Kharg Island, Noshahr and Damavand.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "InternationalGamer" (Jul 14th 2012, 3:06pm)


J0hn-Stuart-Mill

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Saturday, July 14th 2012, 3:33pm

Now, as for the PC, why are there such little Scout kills? There are more maps with the Scouts in PC.
Kharg Island, Noshahr and Damavand.

Well, at Kharg, the scout helis have loads of enemies. MAA, Attack Helis, not to mention jets. Conquest Damavand has loads of "crap" sticking up into the air and its hard to really be effective, not to mention 90% of Conquest Damavand stalemates inside the tunnel where the scout heli can't go. Damavand Rush is popular, but with so many snipers looking the Z-11 straight in the face, I think Z-11 lives are routinely cut short. Later in the round the battles are mostly in the buildings or in the tunnel. Canals conquest PC does not start with a scout heli, (unlike on console) and Canals Rush, the defenders always have a MAA.

PC is a tough environment for the scout heli. :)
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Saturday, July 14th 2012, 3:54pm

I'm surprised you were surprised that jets had less kills than Helis. If you think about it, the guy in a jet would get more disables but with the bailing problem pilots face, they can rarely kill enemy jets.

Choppers, on the other hand, can attack ground and air, killing in both fronts. While jets can, arguably, do this too, choppers are best suited to ground attack, and that's where the kills are at.

This is getting similar to the convo we had on chat yesterday, if you could compare points- I don't think the gap between heli and jet would be as large.

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Sunday, July 15th 2012, 9:43pm

Frogfoot also has a helluva lot more kills than the A10, though I guess there are more attacking vehicles than defenders, plus more exposed..
There was also a very long period where the A-10 wasn't counting kills.

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Monday, July 16th 2012, 4:01am

Frogfoot also has a helluva lot more kills than the A10, though I guess there are more attacking vehicles than defenders, plus more exposed..
There was also a very long period where the A-10 wasn't counting kills.

Was it counting vehicle destroys? I and many other people have many more kills and vehicle destroys with the Frogfoot then the A10. I also feel that the Frogfoot is more responsive then the A10....Wow, it sounds like the A6M Zero and the F4U Corsair debate.


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Monday, July 16th 2012, 1:02pm

Frogfoot also has a helluva lot more kills than the A10, though I guess there are more attacking vehicles than defenders, plus more exposed..
There was also a very long period where the A-10 wasn't counting kills.

Was it counting vehicle destroys? I and many other people have many more kills and vehicle destroys with the Frogfoot then the A10. I also feel that the Frogfoot is more responsive then the A10....Wow, it sounds like the A6M Zero and the F4U Corsair debate.


....

It's true that the A-10 didn't get any points for its kills, but I think the kills still counted.. *shrugs* It could very well be just what John said, they have far more targets

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