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21

Monday, March 5th 2012, 11:13am

Re: Is USAS really all that bad? Realism & My thoughts.

Quoted from ""Suiizide""

Its way too effective on consoles still. when you get killed by people on map like operation firestorm who have 50+ star on their usas and run frag rounds, and you cant touch them because you are suppressed in to oblivion, you know its OP atm.

nerf auto frag rounds, recalibrate the usas slug/frag accuracy to match the jackhammer..... essentially what aenonar said (he da man!)

the jackhammer is supposed to get its accuracy fixed to match usas so that won't work. and that's good. we can't just nerf the accuracy completely just because some people whine about it. its fine. leave it alone. fix the jackhammer and don't touch the usas. tone down the frag rounds suppression and call it fine. all you people complain about guns and all that its going to lead to is the complete nerfing of the gun. and i don't want useless guns!! i want every gun to be a viable option in a situation.

Suiizide

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22

Monday, March 5th 2012, 11:46am

Re: Is USAS really all that bad? Realism & My thoughts.

I'd rather see the suppression stay the same and the damage toned right down so frag rounds matches the description and so it isn't a gun that you can kill around corners with. the USAS with buck is balanced fine I think. Its just the explosive rounds that unbalance it.

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Monday, March 5th 2012, 1:32pm

Re: Is USAS really all that bad? Realism & My thoughts.

I would expect to get killed more times then not with shotguns at close range, what I don't expect people headshoting you with rounds whilst using a 6x scope for example or being shot across the entire main room in Metro.
I'm 1 or 2 levels away from the USAS but from what I've seen, Aeonar posted the best link to it, shows the accuracy of the central frag round.
If my understanding is correct a frag round is a large smattering of buckshot which do no real damage but suppression and a large explosive ball which is the visible tracer.

That visible tracer is far too accurate over range.
How the hell did I get a sniper as my top weapon?

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Monday, March 5th 2012, 3:17pm

Re: Is USAS really all that bad? Realism & My thoughts.

Personally I find RPGs way more annoying than Shottys or Frag rounds. Shotguns might seem OP but they are an effective CQC weapon in real life for room clearing and add an element of SWAT/Urban style play to the game.

RPG's however....when was the last time you saw a police unit breach a building with a freakin rocket launcher?! Not only would it deafen the user it would probably concus everyone else in the room!

I realise they need to be in game but I still very much think RPG's should cause heavy localised suppression effect (When fired) to everyone - especially friendlies. Just to reduce the corridor RPG spamming on so many maps. /2cents
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25

Monday, March 5th 2012, 4:15pm

Re: Is USAS really all that bad? Realism & My thoughts.

USAS (U Suck At Shooting) + Frag Rounds = Easy Mode

When people are using the USAS + Frags on all maps, not just enclosed CQB type maps you know its OP. But it's not because of the USAS itself but the combination of it with the frag round. The USAS with any of the other ammo types really isn't any more effective than the 870 as you still have to maneuver into a position to make the most of those ammo types.

The issue is with the frag round. In single shot it is fairly easy to place rounds on target at medium to long range, even if the target is in cover you can get 3-shot kills past 50m. I think that is what cheeses people off is that you can be killed rather easily while around corners or under hard cover just because someone is spamming frag rounds in your general direction. They really need to tone down the blast area, make it something like 0.3 meters. This will remove the ability to spam the thing and get kills without actually putting any rounds on target while keeping it as a viable option at all ranges if you can actually hit targets with it as direct damage will be unaffected.


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Monday, March 5th 2012, 6:45pm

Re: Is USAS really all that bad? Realism & My thoughts.

Few reasons why it's overpowered - and this is fact, not opinion;

1. no skill required to use. point at general direction, spam trigger.
2. kills very quickly, especially on direct hits
3. don't need direct line of sight to damage enemies, an unfair advantage,
4. ridiculous suppression effect. frag rounds are actually meant for suppression in real life more than killing - but in game, combine this suppression with the damage, and it's so unfair. what I find funny is, DICE must have employed a twat to do the tips on the loading screen. some don't have proper grammar and one of them even says 'Frag rounds are not terribly damaging, but they offer significant suppression.'

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Monday, March 5th 2012, 7:44pm

Re: Is USAS really all that bad? Realism & My thoughts.

I'm having a feeling of dj-vu: <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://symthic.com/f/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=193" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?f=3&t=193</a><!-- l -->
Looking at votings people were more reasonable back then, seems like the qq'ers have finally overtaken the forum.

I could phrase this more friendly, but I don't want to. Every PC player still crying about frags should buy a jumbo package of handkerchiefs or stop playing Metro 64.
Almost no one is using them, and even before the nerf they were a rare sight, and people didn't avoid them because they were goody two-shoes but simply because even then they weren't overall as effective as well-used "normal" weapons.
If you camp obviously behind cover and get the shit nuked out of yourself it's your own mistake. Other than that you won't die faster from frags than from half-way skilled shooting.

I hate to use that killer argument, but I bet no one of those whining has a somewhat good K/D, otherwise they wouldn't think so.


Besides that one, the USAS just plainly sucks beyond point blank range, and if shotgun squads can completely lock down the ONLY two entries on that shitty designed Metro Rush (or whatever) map it's not the weapon who is to blame.

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Monday, March 5th 2012, 7:50pm

Re: Is USAS really all that bad? Realism & My thoughts.

The (console) USAS does let you troll--squad supp., USAS w/Frags, Flashlight--NO ONE CAN SEE ME!!!
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29

Monday, March 5th 2012, 8:01pm

Re: Is USAS really all that bad? Realism & My thoughts.

Quoted

Or it may be that the opportunity costs I'm giving up are outweighed by the benefits, for my specific mode of play. For example, let's say I'm on Noshar Canals, as the US with a random team: those T-90s can wreck a lot of havok on the US by eating objectives constantly on conquest. Objectives A and C are both very good territory for C4 to be used to take out tanks, but that means I need to be able to move quickly, and respond quickly to threats, which makes most of the LMGs a bit worthless. Shotgun with frags, on the other hand, is great for this mode of play.


use a PDW? i don't know what you expect me to say to that. PDWs are just as good as any rifle, especially the AS Val. if you prefer to use a shotgun with frag rounds, you prefer to use it. that doesn't make it OP or better than a rifle (it isn't).

Quoted

So since the shotgun cant do the stealthy approach, it's garbage? Get out of here with that sort of silliness. You are cherry picking your requirements to suit a specific weapon, and then saying the shotgun is garbage because.... it doesn't fit those requirements. Look, a screwdriver works better than a hammer for driving screws, but that doesn't mean hammers are worthless: just look for nails, rather than trying to bitching about how hard it is to hammer down screws.


in fact, i said no such thing. i only said to consider the opportunity cost. you seem to be the one putting shotguns on a pedestal and claiming that in order to fit specific needs, you must use a shotgun. i am merely stating facts: by not accepting attachments, shotguns are ill suited for running and gunning, a very common (and effective) playstyle for a large group of BF3 players. rather, you seem so focused on what a shotgun CAN do well (CQB) that you ignore what it cannot do well (anything that isn't point blank).

i argue that shotguns have a very small niche to excel in and are useless outside of that and am unsure what you are trying to say. shotguns with frag rounds cannot beat rifles at mid-range, unless they get the jump on the enemy...in which case, any weapon (pistol included) would have done the job. these cherry picked scenarios that you come up with do not help your case. anecdotal evidence is anecdotal evidence.


Quoted from ""Cera""

I'm having a feeling of dj-vu: <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://symthic.com/f/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=193" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?f=3&t=193</a><!-- l -->"
Looking at votings people were more reasonable back then, seems like the qq'ers have finally overtaken the forum.

I could phrase this more friendly, but I don't want to. Every PC player still crying about frags should buy a jumbo package of handkerchiefs or stop playing Metro 64.
Almost no one is using them, and even before the nerf they were a rare sight, and people didn't avoid them because they were goody two-shoes but simply because even then they weren't overall as effective as normal weapons.
If you camp obviously behind cover and get the shit nuked out of yourself it's your own mistake. Other than that you won't die faster from frags than from half-way skilled shooting.

I hate to use that killer argument, but I bet no one of those whining has a somewhat good K/D, otherwise they wouldn't think so.


Besides that one, the USAS just plainly sucks beyond point blank range, and if shotgun squads can completely lock down the ONLY two entries on that shitty designed Metro Rush (or whatever) map it's not the weapon who is to blame.


ding ding ding! i can't believe 15 people have voted to nerf frag rounds even further. it is sort of mindboggling.

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Monday, March 5th 2012, 8:35pm

Re: Is USAS really all that bad? Realism & My thoughts.

Quoted from ""linerstank""



in fact, i said no such thing. i only said to consider the opportunity cost. you seem to be the one putting shotguns on a pedestal and claiming that in order to fit specific needs, you must use a shotgun. i am merely stating facts: by not accepting attachments, shotguns are ill suited for running and gunning, a very common (and effective) playstyle for a large group of BF3 players. rather, you seem so focused on what a shotgun CAN do well (CQB) that you ignore what it cannot do well (anything that isn't point blank).


Uh? Whiskey Tango foxtrot? You're telling me that a shotgun can't do things other than CQB, and yet I've got more kills with my 870 than with anything else, and many of them are NOT in point blank. And, YOU are the one focusing on the CQB aspect, and telling me that is what I'm saying, which is not what I'm saying.

Shotguns(or at least the 870) with a scope can be used effectively at medium ranges(100-200m), IF you use them correctly, which is as a semi-auto grenade launcher, not as a sniper rifle or assault rifle. Yes, they have a quick bullet drop, and you have to account for it, but you don't have to get a direct hit to inflict damage(which is fairly impressive on Hardcore) and cause suppression.

I'm not putting shotguns on a pedestal, I'm disagreeing with your statement that they are useless outside of point blank range. You seem to be of the opinion that without a suppressor, the shotgun doesn't work, I suppose. It's hard to figure out, because you make some vague statements, then conclude them with "fact". It's bull.

The truth is that at medium ranges, frag shotguns can still inflict credible damage, if the stats listed on this very website are accurate at all.

So how about this: define "run and gun", would you. Define what attachments the shotgun can't take, that make it utter crap(suppressor, h-bar and foregrip are what come to mind for me..). Try doing that, instead of repeating the same statement, and then saying "fact".

Quoted

i argue that shotguns have a very small niche to excel in and are useless outside of that and am unsure what you are trying to say. shotguns with frag rounds cannot beat rifles at mid-range, unless they get the jump on the enemy...in which case, any weapon (pistol included) would have done the job. these cherry picked scenarios that you come up with do not help your case. anecdotal evidence is anecdotal evidence.


Lol. Reducto ad absurdem, eh? Suddenly, if I'm a stealthy, sneaky player who gets the jump on someone, you're telling me that a pistol with iron sights is going to be more effective than a shotgun with 3.4 or 4x scope? Really? A weapon doing 10 damage is beating out a weapon doing 40 damage? Really? I guess we're also ignoring the fact that the shotgun, if zoomed in, is MUCH more accurate than the pistols, when they are zoomed.

And hows this for anecdotal: on Noshar canals, objective C(Train Yard) has a retaining wall behind the flag, that people frequently use to crouch and hide from any tanks trying to claim the objective. Rifles, PDWs, Pistols, they can't drop rounds into that defilade... Fragguns can! Any situation where opponents are in defilade is a situation for the fraggun to shine.

Again, I take issue with your comment that shotguns are only good at CQB, and uttely worthless otherwise.