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11

Tuesday, March 6th 2012, 5:36am

Re: ADS bonus takes preposterously long to kick in?

Quoted from ""Phil_1337""


did you ever experienced the issue we are talking about?

Nah, cuz I use a shotgun.. i just hipfire like crazy. Or I make sure I've established my sight picture prior to going into a hostile situation. It's a habit from paintball and airsoft.


Quoted

but thankfully graedus already made clear that this problem has found its way to the patchnotes.


Yup, but it doesn't seem to be completely going away, they're just making it a bit quicker to ADS.

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Tuesday, March 6th 2012, 3:18pm

Re: ADS bonus takes preposterously long to kick in?

I completely agree with the OP and Skanagar. As a support player, more often than not, I'll go to fire at someone that doesn't even see me, run off ~35 rounds and maybe hit him twice, and he just turns and one-shots me. What's worse is when you DO hit them a bunch of times and they still just turn and one-shot you. Two things wrong with that: 1. Support weapons are complete shit. 2. the ADS problem.

Aenonar

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13

Tuesday, March 6th 2012, 4:20pm

Re: ADS bonus takes preposterously long to kick in?

Umm, ADS accuracy bonus starts taking effect as soon as you start ADS, even if you start firing before then, and makes the weapon fully accurate in like 0.1 seconds or less when not firing... There is no ADS bonus error that causes you to miss 30+ bullets... If you just let go of the trigger for a split second the gun is back to normal, so the only way you can miss 30 rounds in a row is if you fire full auto...

RDS animation frame by frame:
1 - gun retracts slightly
2 - gun slight backwards movement, crosshair slight movement, slight zoom in
3 - slight sideways gun movement, crosshair slight movement, slightly more zoom
4 - slight sideways gun movement, red dot slightly visible in sight, crosshair zooms one step, slightly more zoom
5 - gun sideways movement, crosshair slight movement, slightly more zoom
6 - gun sight enters crosshair, crosshair zooms one step further, final zoom level
7 - gun sight almost in the middle, crosshair starts fading
8 - slight sight adjustment to final position in the middle of the screen, crosshair faded


And yes, supports spread is horrible and you can easily get almost instakilled by an assault.. But unlikely if you burst the LMG properly (although the spread is still quite horrible)


And now they're apparently fixing this "problem", which isn't really a problem in the first place ;o So I'm guessing that it will be even easier to get instakilled by people you're shooting at... Hurray for competitiveness \o/ Uh.. what.. wait? Isn't that the real problem here? People being able to return accurate fire when being shot at? That sort of thing just pisses me off... Suppression is weak and people can easily snap 180 degrees and return accurate fire and kill you before your own fire kills them.. Competitiveness or broken game? I know where my vote goes...

Quoted

(14:06:57) Riesig: I should stop now. People might get sig material again

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14

Tuesday, March 6th 2012, 8:42pm

Re: ADS bonus takes preposterously long to kick in?

Quoted from ""Nuu-oN""

Quoted from ""Ecasx""

I don't think this is a pretty big deal. I mean, in real life, if you're getting a scope to your eye and pull the trigger before you've got it next to your eye, then it's likely the shot will go off. In close quarters, obviously you should hipfire - why would you aim down, unless of course your hip fire is shit?


At a distance of 10m, hipfiring already seriously sucks compared to an accurate ADS burst... and yet, having to wait a split second at that range could be deadly.

In real life with a scope, sure. But this is a videogame and fast reflexes and reaction speed is part of the skillset.


It's fair for everyone though, isn't it? Everyone has the same disadvantage, so I wouldn't think it's a pretty big deal.

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15

Tuesday, March 6th 2012, 8:48pm

Re: ADS bonus takes preposterously long to kick in?

Quoted from ""Phil_1337""

i experienced that too and BF3 is the only game i ever had this issue. and it is really frustrating, i already fired 30 rounds on a near target and all shots missed. the other guy turned around and killed me instantly. you cannot argue with real life behavior, it is still a GAME and if you aim down the sights you should get that bonus instantly, no matter how early you start firing. in my opinion it is a bug and should be fixed...


You fired 30 rounds and all shots missed? That doesn't make sense - the delay in accuracy bonus is tiny, only a fraction of a second. Don't understand how it's frustrating for you, because everyone has the same disadvantage, and therefore IMO it isn't a big deal. And yes, you can argue with real life behaviour, because this game obviously needs realism to a certain extent, and to the certain extent that we speak of, like I said, IMO it isn't a big deal.

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16

Thursday, March 8th 2012, 11:24pm

Re: ADS bonus takes preposterously long to kick in?

Quoted from ""Aenonar""

Umm, ADS accuracy bonus starts taking effect as soon as you start ADS, even if you start firing before then, and makes the weapon fully accurate in like 0.1 seconds or less when not firing...


i did some tests now and i have to disagree:

if you start firing fullauto and then press the right mouse button for ADS, the bullets will have the same spread as from the hip.

if you ADS and wait until the crosshair centers and then start firing, you will get the ADS bonus - everything fine...

but if you start ADS and the crosshair is already visible but not exactly in the center (i suppose it has to be right before phase 8 of your analysis) you although won't get the ADS bonus the whole burst long. in this phase you could already see your target through the sight and if you have fast reflexes you start firing. but at distances from where i'm used to fire 5 rounds per burst, it can be difficult to hit the target since 2-3 bullets theoretically would hit, but the others wouldn't. for support weapons this is even worse: i fire normally ~10 rounds per burst with the RPK or even more, so i can constantly drag down the mouse to control the recoil. normally with ADS bonus this works fine, but if i start to fire too fast, nearly all my shots will miss, until i realize ADS bonus is not working... and and to be punished for your reflexes being too fast is really really really frustrating.... i wish i could make a video to demonstate the effect, but i have no experience and i think you can easily test it by yourself.

and please excuse my bad english, it's not my native language.


Aenonar

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17

Friday, March 9th 2012, 10:47am

Re: ADS bonus takes preposterously long to kick in?

Quoted from ""Phil_1337""

Quoted from ""Aenonar""

Umm, ADS accuracy bonus starts taking effect as soon as you start ADS, even if you start firing before then, and makes the weapon fully accurate in like 0.1 seconds or less when not firing...


i did some tests now and i have to disagree:

if you start firing fullauto and then press the right mouse button for ADS, the bullets will have the same spread as from the hip.

if you ADS and wait until the crosshair centers and then start firing, you will get the ADS bonus - everything fine...

but if you start ADS and the crosshair is already visible but not exactly in the center (i suppose it has to be right before phase 8 of your analysis) you although won't get the ADS bonus the whole burst long. in this phase you could already see your target through the sight and if you have fast reflexes you start firing. but at distances from where i'm used to fire 5 rounds per burst, it can be difficult to hit the target since 2-3 bullets theoretically would hit, but the others wouldn't. for support weapons this is even worse: i fire normally ~10 rounds per burst with the RPK or even more, so i can constantly drag down the mouse to control the recoil. normally with ADS bonus this works fine, but if i start to fire too fast, nearly all my shots will miss, until i realize ADS bonus is not working... and and to be punished for your reflexes being too fast is really really really frustrating.... i wish i could make a video to demonstate the effect, but i have no experience and i think you can easily test it by yourself.

and please excuse my bad english, it's not my native language.


Well, I guess I was pretty unclear what I really meant.. What I really meant was that the spread increase is instantly changed to the ads spread values, so for standing M16 it would get 0.2 spread increase instead of 2.5 the moment you start to ADS. But the original spread is still there since you don't magically remove it all, only change the next shots increase


Recorded some M16A3 shots now with hip, ads, hip+instantly ads, hip and ads after a few rounds and 2 with starting hip + ads but burst.


hip: Could clearly see the crosshair increase on each shot (0.223 seconds (7 frames) to return to base spread from 30 rounds full auto)

ads: eh, fairly pointless test except to see the tightness of the wall hits

hip+instant ads: crosshair zoomed in one step, didn't increase further once the ads animation had started, 2 rounds fired during animation.

hip and ads after a few rounds: 3 rounds before, crosshair stopped increasing instantly when starting ads

starting hip + ads burst: 5 round hip burst while starting ads, 0.2 seconds wait easily gave it full ads accuracy for the next burst. 0,133 wait between each burst easily reset the spread


Well, the crosshair slowed/stopped increase suggests that the ADS spread value has been taken. Though since it started with hip spread the aim is still crap, giving a similar final pattern on the wall. Though who knows really, might just be a crosshair bug and the hip value really is retained...


If you look at it from a real life perspective, there is no way you can start hip firing and then keep firing while you pull up the weapon to your shoulder to ADS.. You'd probably even drop the weapon trying it ;o So it wouldn't make any sense to have it magically remove the basic hip spread values just because you ADS in the middle.


But really, you shouldn't use full auto and expect accuracy either way, the accuracy is way better when bursting + spread reset is extremely fast.

Even if you manage to max out the 7.0 hip spread, the 11.0 decrease will reset it in 0.63 seconds. 3.0 ads max spread is 0.27 seconds

Quoted

(14:06:57) Riesig: I should stop now. People might get sig material again

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Friday, March 9th 2012, 12:59pm

Re: ADS bonus takes preposterously long to kick in?

Quoted from ""Aenonar""

If you look at it from a real life perspective, there is no way you can start hip firing and then keep firing while you pull up the weapon to your shoulder to ADS.. You'd probably even drop the weapon trying it ;o So it wouldn't make any sense to have it magically remove the basic hip spread values just because you ADS in the middle.


nonono, my problem is this case:
you start ADS (no firing before!!!), ADS animation starts -> right before it ends (problably just at frame 7 or 8) you press fire and you will not get the ADS bonus (you assume the spread increase will be like ADS and base spread like hip, but anyway this doesn't matter since the pattern is similiar to hipfire).

in this late phase of the ADS animation you can already see through the sight. it doesnt make sense to cut off the bonus. "in real life" (i really hate this term since it is a game...) you already would have taken the weapon to your shoulder in a stable postion and start looking through the sights.

now... all that i want is to reduce this delay where ADS bonus kicks in to ~50% to make the game more responsible. again: BF3 is the only game i ever had this problem. and anyway DICE seems to patch it, so it's not intended.



Quoted from ""Aenonar""

But really, you shouldn't use full auto and expect accuracy either way, the accuracy is way better when bursting + spread reset is extremely fast.


sure, like i already said, i normally burst fire in 2-5 rounds with assault weapons and carbines (except G3 and SCAR), but with support weapons this just doesn't work for me because auf the high recoil: if i compensate it with dragging down the mouse and then release the button after 3 rounds the crosshair will be under the enemy because of the compensation. then i have to readjust and compensate again. and if i wouldn't compensate, the bullets would fly over the head (remember also the firstshotmultiplier on M27 and RPK)... often its quicker to fire ~10 rounds and drag down the mouse constantly depending on distance (with support weapons!), the accuracy is sufficient. but this will not work if the ADS bonus doesn't kick in. thats my problem and i hope it is clear now what i meant...


Aenonar

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19

Friday, March 9th 2012, 1:54pm

Re: ADS bonus takes preposterously long to kick in?

Ah yes, stupid flu jumbling everything up... Sorry about that..

Was going to mention in the hip+instant ads that the first round came at the 4th frame, and there's basically 2 frames per bullet.

Though the "fire" command still came at the hip fire mode.. I'll do some more tests later on today where I slightly delay the first shot and see exactly how many frames you have to wait before the ads accuracy is in full effect

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(14:06:57) Riesig: I should stop now. People might get sig material again

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Friday, March 9th 2012, 2:07pm

Re: ADS bonus takes preposterously long to kick in?

ok, would be nice. but perhaps you should better use any supportweapon instead of the m16, so you can see the effects better...

and get well soon! ^^