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## TTK - normal VS hardcore

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: Aug 30th 2013

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Tuesday, September 3rd 2013, 7:35pm

### TTK - normal VS hardcore

Some considerations: we know that the weapon damage is the same, but on hardcore each player has only 60% hp compared to normal. So thinking logically, if we take the time to kill on normal and multiply it with a factor of 0.6 it should match the TTK on hardcore. But it does not. The question is: why?

Sometimes I just get blinded by hate. And tears.

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Tuesday, September 3rd 2013, 7:46pm

### Quoted from "Maver1ck"

So thinking logically, if we take the time to kill on normal and multiply it with a factor of 0.6 it should match the TTK on hardcore. But it does not. The question is: why?
Because delay between shots also accounts into TTK? When you don't need delay between e.g 3rd and 4th it just doesn't count in overall TTK.

2manyPosts4me

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Tuesday, September 3rd 2013, 8:02pm

I accidentally refreshed and lost it, going to rewrite it. There are three sources.

1) Your first source of error is from the nature of TTK itself.
So consider a fictional timer that starts the second your first shots is fired and ends the second your last shot is fired (ignore travel time for now, that complicates manners).

For a gun that kills in two shots, the time to kill is the interval between a single shot. For a gun that kills in 3 shots, you wait for 2 time intervals. So TTK = (BTK - 1) * <interval> Make sense?

Let's make up a gun that fires at 600 rpm (interval of 100 ms) and does 25 damage. It makes sense that the TTK must be some multiple of the time between shots, right?
Normal mode:
TTK=(4-1)*100ms=300ms.
HC--multiples:
.6*300ms = 180ms
That's obviously incorrect. Let's try the correct calculation. You can see intuitively that it will kill in 3 shots so you'll wait 2 intervals.
HC--calculation:
(3-1)*100ms = 200ms
Matches our expectations.

2) The other way to think about it is that bullets do discrete damage over time. Your damage pops up, waits, pops up again.

This demonstrates that some kind of "overkill" is necessary. And so that screws up your calculation. You're not doing 60 damage; you're doing 75 because 50 doesn't kill.

3) A third source of error comes from including bullet travel time; the distance to a target is the same distance, no matter the game mode. If it takes exactly 1s to get to the target, it takes that 1s to get there no matter what. You can't multiply by .6 because it would break physics.

EDIT:
Okay, this should be it. Done editing; I just didn't want to write this up and get ninja'd by Rezal.
Emperor Nick of the Cult of Defibrillation

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... fuck. Damn you hindsight!

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Tuesday, September 3rd 2013, 9:06pm

that's a great explanation Nick, thanks. So there seems to be no easy way to calculate TTK on hardcore based on normal TTK values..

Victorious

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Tuesday, September 3rd 2013, 9:10pm

TTK is unreliable and shouldn't be used for anything other than math practice or as a novelty.
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-------
Cham·pi·on
noun \Ëˆcham-pÄ“-É™n\

1 : Warrior, Fighter
2 : a militant advocate or defender <a champion of civil rights>
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2manyPosts4me

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Tuesday, September 3rd 2013, 9:26pm

Yeah, you just have to recalculate it, there's no way around it that I know of that's simpler than just recalculating.
Emperor Nick of the Cult of Defibrillation

I'm basically just a degenerate weeb who doesn't post much nowadays.

I'm secretly Old Man Symthic

You're fedorable

### Quoted from "ToTheSun!"

I have the highest postcount. Nick doesn't count.

### Quoted

23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: I'm -
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: Okay
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: I'm stabbing everyone
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: Bye guys
23:44 Nick: *flips table*
23:44 Legion: Bye, happy stabbing
23:44 *** Lt_Col_Jesus quit (Quit: off to murder the public at large).

### Quoted

10:41 LB: You just...reanimated Steve Jobs.
10:41 Dice: Well that would be unfortunate, I was just getting used to him being dead.

### Quoted from "Pheozero"

... fuck. Damn you hindsight!

### Quoted

23:58 Failure117: CAUSE IM FREEE
23:58 Nick: AS A BIIIIRD NOW
23:58 Failure117: FREEE OF NICK'S WORM RAPE

### Quoted

ViperFTW: HEY LOOK
ViperFTW: AN ALIEN LASER FISH THE SIZE OF THE SUN
ViperFTW: I WANT TO SWAT IT WITH MY COMICLY LARGE SWORD
ViperFTW: WITH
ViperFTW: THIS
ViperFTW: AS
ViperFTW: MY
ViperFTW: FUUUUCKING SOUNDTRACK DDD
(the album in question)

Unhappy Camper

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Tuesday, September 3rd 2013, 9:36pm

### Quoted from "Maver1ck"

that's a great explanation Nick, thanks. So there seems to be no easy way to calculate TTK on hardcore based on normal TTK values..

The charts do display HC TTK though, no need to calculate anything.

BF3 Time to Kill Charts, TTK & BTK | Symthic

### Quoted from "J0hn-Stuart-Mill"

EMPOWER EMPOWER EMPOWER

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Tuesday, September 3rd 2013, 9:47pm

yeah I know that the data is available, the thing is.. I just wrote a huge method returning a float array representing TTK (in 1, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 and 80m) for each gun and I REALLY don't feel like doing the same for hardcore