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  • "Havoc" started this thread

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11

Wednesday, February 1st 2012, 12:58am

Re: Mortars

Quoted from ""wgknestrick""

I think (NEEDS TO BE VERIFIED) the mini map flashes with a white mortar icon briefly when you setup your mortar to the enemy.
Mortar on minimap is somewhat bugged. I know there is a well known bug on xbox where mortars just don't show up. Not sure about the specifics though because I only play on PC.

I find the white flash on setup only happens sometimes, and not very reliably. As well, I have played a couple of games where enemies mortared and did not show up at all the entire round (seems pretty rare though).

Quoted from ""DogEyedBoy""

100 direct damage; 50 blast damage sounds right to me. I've got almost 200 kills with mortars and 99% of the time a hit marker on a stationary target will instant kill. If they are moving or I'm slightly off target I'll generally get a kill assist of 50 (or very, very close to) before I can fire a second shell.
Do you play HC? I find I can often get OHK's in HC (either from enemies being slightly damaged, or from projectile + explosion). As I noted above, most often from snipers on maps like Damavand.

In normal I rarely get a OHK. If I do, it will usually be from catching enemies running off to hide after a fight (I watch their direction before their blip disappears, then mortar the nearest hiding spot). In normal, I usually have to put 3 mortars on someone standing still (due to no projectile hit and only 45dmg from flak).

Symthic

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12

Wednesday, February 1st 2012, 1:18am

Re: Mortars

Quoted from ""Bicker""

Symthic, your data says 100 for direct hit but it was quite hard to directly hit someone. When we thought it happened, the damage seemed to only be 34. Ideas?

Interesting.. how did you test it?
You hit someone with 100% health and after direct hit & explosion, he was standing with 16% health left?
BF3: Objective per minute: World top 1%

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13

Wednesday, February 1st 2012, 1:21am

Re: Mortars

When the opposing team attempts to counter mortar me I always look for the white deploy icon flash, it seems to happen every time. I have only noticed a couple of times where people were not showing on the mini-map when mortaring.

I never play Hardcore; I generally only mortar when a team are hiding in their base on Conquest; in that situation it's really either a kill or a complete miss because somebody has already shot my target before the shell lands.

I should add that I'm play on Xbox 360 and I find it extremely easy to direct hit a stationary target; I don't see why PC should be any different though.

  • "Havoc" started this thread

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14

Wednesday, February 1st 2012, 2:41am

Re: Mortars

We just tested mortars more.

Smoke mortar projectiles do 100+dmg. Instant kill regardless of distance. Tested with 100% health standing on top of the mortarer and at max distance. So it seems alternating smoke/explosive is a very good idea.

Explosive mortar projectiles do 34 dmg in exactly the same tests (+50 explosive dmg). Direct hit at range would leave us with 16% HP no flak and 21% HP with flak. Standing on top of the mortar would leave us at 66% regardless.

We also found that while standing still, it was about 1/15 shots to hit with a projectile, and while laying it was about 1/5.

We also found that explosive damage does hurt vehicles (not just a direct hit). We didn't test enough for exact indirect % damage for each area though.

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15

Wednesday, February 1st 2012, 6:55pm

Re: Mortars

Quoted from ""Havoc""

We just tested mortars more.

Smoke mortar projectiles do 100+dmg. Instant kill regardless of distance. Tested with 100% health standing on top of the mortarer and at max distance. So it seems alternating smoke/explosive is a very good idea.

Explosive mortar projectiles do 34 dmg in exactly the same tests (+50 explosive dmg). Direct hit at range would leave us with 16% HP no flak and 21% HP with flak. Standing on top of the mortar would leave us at 66% regardless.

We also found that while standing still, it was about 1/15 shots to hit with a projectile, and while laying it was about 1/5.

We also found that explosive damage does hurt vehicles (not just a direct hit). We didn't test enough for exact indirect % damage for each area though.



Can you please VERIFY the mini-map theories that I have stated previously? The damage tests are very nice, but the mortar obviously is tied closely with mini-map behavior both offensively and defensively. If there is anything to exploit or understand better about mortars, it's how to best utilize the mini map functionality.

-White flash of mortar icon when enemy deploys mortar.
-"Invisible" mortar on mini map until you shoot 1st shell or is it time based?
-Also see if you can figure out what causes "invisible" while firing mortars. (deploying under porch/overhang in Bazaar), in doorways, on top of map item/box, certain places on maps, near edge of maps, or is it just an illusion based on above 1st shot invisibility (like I suspect) and a mobile mortar player.

These things are very hard to verify in normal play and I don't have any friends with this game for PC.

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16

Wednesday, February 1st 2012, 9:35pm

Re: Mortars

Quoted from ""Symthic""

Smoke projectile:

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
			TimeToLive 5.0
			InitialSpeed 350.0
	Damage 100.0
		BlastDamage 0.0
		BlastRadius 7.0


HE projectile:

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
			TimeToLive 5.0
			InitialSpeed 350.0
	Damage 100.0
		InnerBlastRadius 1.5
		BlastDamage 50.0
		BlastRadius 7.0


Damage - Direct damage from projectile
InnerBlastRadius - The radius where it does the full BlastDamage
BlastRadius - Maxmimum distance where it does any damage

It's like with weapons.
InnerBlastRadius and BlastRadius being min and max distance
BlastDamage is the maximum damage and minimum damage is always 0


Thanks for the info.

Quoted from ""Havoc""

We just tested mortars more.

Smoke mortar projectiles do 100+dmg. Instant kill regardless of distance. Tested with 100% health standing on top of the mortarer and at max distance. So it seems alternating smoke/explosive is a very good idea.


I did that pretty much day 1 of me using mortars cause a friend told me the smoke kills and thats all I needed to hear. You also switch immediately and often people are to busy with there business to move right away. When I used mortar I almost always got two hit markers cause as I said rarely anyone moves right away. I'm loving all this info I never thought that I would learn this much about a shooter. I also never thought a shooter would have this much learn too.

  • "Havoc" started this thread

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17

Thursday, February 2nd 2012, 3:13am

Re: Mortars

Quoted from ""wgknestrick""

Can you please VERIFY the mini-map theories that I have stated previously? The damage tests are very nice, but the mortar obviously is tied closely with mini-map behavior both offensively and defensively. If there is anything to exploit or understand better about mortars, it's how to best utilize the mini map functionality.

-White flash of mortar icon when enemy deploys mortar.
-"Invisible" mortar on mini map until you shoot 1st shell or is it time based?
-Also see if you can figure out what causes "invisible" while firing mortars. (deploying under porch/overhang in Bazaar), in doorways, on top of map item/box, certain places on maps, near edge of maps, or is it just an illusion based on above 1st shot invisibility (like I suspect) and a mobile mortar player.

These things are very hard to verify in normal play and I don't have any friends with this game for PC.
Even with friends, this one is hard to pin down. I don't really have any theories on this yet, other than it being a random bug. Some things I have noticed:

-White mortar flash on deployment is random...it seems to happen with any deployable equipment. I recently noticed a white spawn beacon flash on the minimap and I have noticed MAV's flash on the minimap. Because it doesn't happen reliably I would assume its a bug; it should either always show on setup or not show on setup. I would assume not showing on setup was the original intent (to allow for counter mortaring or stealthy spawn beacons/mav/tugs).

-Mortars are "normally" invisible until they shoot. I think they're visible for something like 3 seconds (slightly less than their reload time).

-From the two games I have noticed invisible mortars in (just saw one earlier today):
[list=1]It is tied to players (only that player is invisible while mortaring, their other teammates seem to show up)

It persisted the entire match (even through death)

They insisted that they were not aware when I confronted them (I tended to believe it wasn't a hack/intentional glitch since they had terrible scores and stopped mortaring after I confronted them)[/list]

  • "Havoc" started this thread

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18

Thursday, February 2nd 2012, 3:16am

Re: Mortars

I forgot to mention in my earlier posts.

You CANNOT be knifed (animation) while mortaring. The enemy's knife will move into the "kill" position, but won't allow for an attack. It can still do swipe damage though (when not in the kill position).

Aenonar

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19

Thursday, February 2nd 2012, 9:01am

Re: Mortars

Quoted from ""Havoc""

I forgot to mention in my earlier posts.

You CANNOT be knifed (animation) while mortaring. The enemy's knife will move into the "kill" position, but won't allow for an attack. It can still do swipe damage though (when not in the kill position).


You can actually be knifed when mortaring, though you have to be in precisely the right position for it (I think it was about 30-45 degrees to the front) But it's not really worth it, at least when you have a silenced weapon... Been killed more by random enemies running past while trying to get into position than I've been able to knife the mortar guy...


As for minimap visibility - Usually you appear right away when you set up (or even pick out oO) the mortar. This is why you can get counter mortared right away in a mortar fight. Been able to get some mortar spammers to rage quit because I never let them even fire off a single mortar..

No clue why they're invisible at times... Doubt that it's because of the quick setup-fire-pickup method.. You still show up the first time.. Possibly that it's just another bug ;>

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(14:06:57) Riesig: I should stop now. People might get sig material again

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20

Friday, February 3rd 2012, 5:23am

Re: Mortars

White flash: Definitely happens with every normal (i.e. not going to be an invisible) deployment of a mortar by any player, it's aided me in counter-mortaring so many players to the point of often being accused of 'hax' by players unaware of it's presence on the mini-map. Out of my current 315 mortar kills, 95% of those are other mortar users.

I haven't seen it reported as a bug anywhere officially, have I missed something there? Hopefully it isn't seen as a bug as while some would argue it lets you deny the use of the other mortar user, it's also balanced in that while you're hanging around spotting for those markers in mortar mode, you're not contributing as much as you could be in other roles.

One thing I've started noticing is that some of the white-flash markers recently are slightly out in terms of where they pop. 80% of the time I see the flash, lob a round that way, and if I don't see a kill or hit marker and hang around to see if they return the favour, they'll show up 3-4 metres from where they were marked. It used to be accurate 100% of the time in that I could hit them without fail.

I do wonder if it might be a case of the flash occurring when you trigger the deployment, but in the few seconds it takes you can still move a small distance until the deployment is finished. That's untested speculation though, might give it a go this week if I get on a server with someone that counter-mortars well (pretty rare in my part of the world it seems!).

Mortar marker on map: As stated, you're visible once you fire your first round. To add to that, if you're spotted by the enemy normally (soldier, MAV, etc) you will be visible before you've fired a shot as well (I know it's a given but some people still don't realise it).

Invisible mortars (PC): I too haven't any idea what causes the invisible mortar but they definitely occur on PC as well. I'll strike one every 5-6 rounds played and it doesn't seem to be based on where you deploy, as I've been killed by invisible mortars deployed in a particular spot and later in the round I've killed the same person when they've been marked as shooting from the exact same spot (observations in TDM, can't confirm it for Conquest).

As per that statement, from my observation it hasn't persisted through death but that's not to say that Havoc is wrong, just that I personally haven't observed a player remaining invisible once killed and redeploying (this is referring to pub TDM servers).



Great thread btw, go the Support players!