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Rezal

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  • "Rezal" started this thread

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1

Friday, December 14th 2012, 8:02pm

Foregrip and heavy barrel: Best friends forever

People hate the foregrip. Good for them. However when you are looking for the best accuracy, the combination of the heavy barrel and the foregrip often yields the best results. Even on weapons where you would be called a horrible player for using it. Why is that?

In the march patch, DICE aimed for a few things when they reworked the attachments:

-the grip will give you +0.1 ADS standing minspread
-the grip will reduce the stronger side of the recoil by 0.1
-they heavy barrel on assault rifles and carbines gives you 0.25 times the minspread.

While the second point isn't quite true anymore after multiple recoil changes with some forgotten foregrip adjustments, it should still be obvious that:

-your ADS standing minspread will effectively only increase by 0.025
-your ADS moving minspread will increase a little more on "accurate" weapons due to the higher foregrip multiplier, so carbines will be hurt less by the increased spread when on the move
-your recoil reduction will be in the 0.1 area, still outweighing the foregrip spread penalty when moving on most assault rifles.

Deviation, spread and recoil
Imagine you want to shoot a certain spot. Now imagine sphere, where your position (or rather the spot between your eyes where your bullets will come from) is its center and the spot which you want to hit a spot on said sphere (this is actually enough to define a sphere, since you have a center and its radius, which is the distance to target). When you shoot, your bullet will hit the sphere at a certain spot. The angle between bullet-hits-sphere and your target is your bullet's deviation.

Your deviation will contain contain your weapon's spread and misaligned crosshair.

Weapon spread is when your bullet exits the weapon not in the direction your crosshair is pointing. The allowed directions the bullet can exit the weapon form a cone. I you shoot a wall (without any scope sway, spread increase or recoil, i.e. single fire bipod), your bullets would hit a circular area. From the way spread is implemented, half your bullets will hit the inner 25% of that area, the other half will hit the outer 75%. So you could say that the mechanism favors the less extreme spread.

Crosshair misaligned is how far you aim from where you should aim. This includes bullet drop, compensating for moving targets (leading) and, if you've just fired a shot, how far recoil moved your crosshair from the correct direction. You can take care of bullet drop and leading, so those things won't be discussed in this accuracy consideration.

Recoil however is not so easy. It consists of two components, vertical and horizontal recoil. Recoil is applied after each shot, except for burst AN94. Unlike spread, it doesn't affect your first shot, only the following ones. Vertical recoil is the same for all shots except the first one, which is multiplied with the FSM. This makes is predictable and able to be compensated for. Horizontal recoil is at least partially random. There is an interval of values it can assume, and at least for the first two recoils, our observations hint that it is completely random over the whole interval. You cannot negate the effect of this randomness like you can do with the vertical recoil. And it gets worse. Weapons with unbalanced recoil will drift to one side, which will take you away from your desired spot even further. Here you will have to compensate for your weapon's average drift to get it back to balanced recoil levels. Weapons with unbalanced horizontal recoil are worse than weapons with balanced horizontal recoil. Horizontal recoil has another detrimental property: It will move your crosshair horizontally. A player model is usually taller than wide, so horizontal is just the direction you want your crosshair not to move.

With those numbers and explanations, let's have a more detailed look at what happens when you combine the foregrip and the heavy barrel:
-Your first shot deviation will only be affected by spread. However, we don't want to shoot infinitely small targets. If your target is reasonably large, you can still get the same accuracy with more spread (assuming sufficiently good aim). And my plots will show that this is the case most of the time.
-The following shots' deviation is influenced by horizontal recoil and spread. With the bar grip combo, your maximum deviation in horizontal direction might be 0.175° (second shot spread) plus another 0.2° from recoil. Without the grip, you would end up with something like 0.15° spread plus 0.3° recoil, which is significantly more. Additionally, it is more likely to get extreme recoil values than extreme spread values. And even if you get an extreme spread value, it might be up or down rather than left or right. For ADS moving performance, the spread penalty for the grip combo will be larger and comparable to some of the foregrips' recoil boni, but the less detrimental spread distribution will often keep the performance on par with the bar only configuration.

There you have it. The foregrip is a good attachment when used with the heavy barrel. I will add weapon plots to the following posts so you can actually see the changes. I decided to go far three round bursts because I think Plotic is very accurate until this point. Also, for more shots both configurations will have a big amount of spread, which will lead to quite low hit rates anyway. I also created plots for the mag fed LMGs, which will show that you need a certain minspread reduction from the heavy barrel to make it work.

Perfect recoil control was assumed. Distances are 50 meters for ADS moving and 80 meter for ADS standing still.
Are you a scrub?

Quoted from "CTE Scrub"

I mean the clearest example of this in Battlefield 4 is the mathematical fact that the FAMAS is putting out 40% higher DPS than the slowest AR the SAR-21, making it the choice when it comes to close combat. It shouldn't be that way.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Blue Panda" (Aug 12th 2013, 1:09am)


Rezal

Listen to Rezal!

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2

Friday, December 14th 2012, 8:02pm

Assault rifles

AEK

Spoiler Spoiler

AEK has a good grip, so use it.





AK74M

Spoiler Spoiler

Decent grip, worth using it.





AUG

Spoiler Spoiler

Same as with the AK74M, decent and recommended grip.





F2000

Spoiler Spoiler

Very good grip, recommended.





FAMAS

Spoiler Spoiler

Best grip in the assault rifle class, has probably been then obvious choice for everybody.





G3

Spoiler Spoiler

High moving spread penatly but good recoil reduction, whether you should use it or not depends on your playstyle. When you like shooting on the move, don't use it. If you stand still a lotit has some small advantages, but bipod might be better.





KH2002

Spoiler Spoiler

Just use the fucking grip.





L85

Spoiler Spoiler

The foregrip is also recommended for the L85.





M16A3

Spoiler Spoiler

The A3 has probably the worst grip after the G3, but it is still helpful.





M16A4

Spoiler Spoiler

The same grip turns out to be better on the A4.





M416

Spoiler Spoiler

Kept the buffed grip from the September patch. Recommended.





SCAR-L

Spoiler Spoiler

If you want good burst performance, the foregrip is a great choice.





5 round bursts data (# of hits):

Source code

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				ADS moving 50 m					ADS standing 80 m
			FG+HB			HB			FG+HB			HB
				
AEK			3.81			3.49			3.03			2.66

AK74M			4.24			4.15			3.80			3.39

AUG			3.73			3.63			3.26			2.87

F2000			3.70			3.30			2.83			2.48

FAMAS			3.63			3.25			2.90			2.48

G3			3.58			4.08			4.21			3.78

L85			4.19			4.03			3.69			3.21

M16A3			4.19			4.15			3.69			3.39

M416			4.34			4.34			4.02			3.70

SCAR-L			4.32			4.24			3.98			3.54
Are you a scrub?

Quoted from "CTE Scrub"

I mean the clearest example of this in Battlefield 4 is the mathematical fact that the FAMAS is putting out 40% higher DPS than the slowest AR the SAR-21, making it the choice when it comes to close combat. It shouldn't be that way.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Rezal" (Jan 20th 2013, 6:10pm)


Rezal

Listen to Rezal!

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3

Friday, December 14th 2012, 8:03pm

Carbines

A91

Spoiler Spoiler

When I tell you that the grip is good on the A91, it is probably nothing surprising for you.





ACR

Spoiler Spoiler

The ACR has a relatively bad heavy barrel and foregrip. While the grip has a small beneficial effect overall, it might be worth using a bipod instead.





AKS

Spoiler Spoiler

Yes, please.





G36C

Spoiler Spoiler

If you don't grip the G36C, I have some bad news for you.





G53

Spoiler Spoiler

Not as good as on the G36C, but still really good.





M4

Spoiler Spoiler

As with the M16A4, the grip is a winner on this one.





M4A1

Spoiler Spoiler

Less beneficial on the A1, but nothing wrong with using it.





MTAR

Spoiler Spoiler

The grip has a very low spread penalty here, so it even has a decent effect when moving.





SCAR-H

Spoiler Spoiler

People call me horrible, but is is a good combo.





SG553

Spoiler Spoiler

If you really want to use this weapon, grip it up.



Are you a scrub?

Quoted from "CTE Scrub"

I mean the clearest example of this in Battlefield 4 is the mathematical fact that the FAMAS is putting out 40% higher DPS than the slowest AR the SAR-21, making it the choice when it comes to close combat. It shouldn't be that way.

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "Rezal" (Dec 15th 2012, 8:33am)


Rezal

Listen to Rezal!

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4

Friday, December 14th 2012, 8:04pm

LMGs

L86

Spoiler Spoiler

Has a slightly better heavy barrel than the other LMGs, but not good enough.





M27

Spoiler Spoiler

No.





MG36

Spoiler Spoiler

Same as M27, so no.





QBB

Spoiler Spoiler

Better moving spread than the other LMGs, so it suffers less there. But it's still not good enough.





RPK

Spoiler Spoiler

Even the best grip of the LMG class isn't good enough.



Are you a scrub?

Quoted from "CTE Scrub"

I mean the clearest example of this in Battlefield 4 is the mathematical fact that the FAMAS is putting out 40% higher DPS than the slowest AR the SAR-21, making it the choice when it comes to close combat. It shouldn't be that way.

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "Rezal" (Dec 14th 2012, 8:21pm)


Rezal

Listen to Rezal!

(5,997)

  • "Rezal" started this thread

Posts: 2,960

Date of registration
: Apr 6th 2012

Platform: PC

Location: From the heart of Europe.

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5

Friday, December 14th 2012, 8:05pm

Headshots

Few plots for headshot performance. At those ranges it seems already better to go for bodyshots if possible.

AEK

Spoiler Spoiler


[img]http://i.imgur.com/ZfnaS.jpg
[img]http://i.imgur.com/pnMhXh.png[/img]




L85

Spoiler Spoiler








M16A3

Spoiler Spoiler








SCAR-H

Spoiler Spoiler








SCAR-L

Spoiler Spoiler






Are you a scrub?

Quoted from "CTE Scrub"

I mean the clearest example of this in Battlefield 4 is the mathematical fact that the FAMAS is putting out 40% higher DPS than the slowest AR the SAR-21, making it the choice when it comes to close combat. It shouldn't be that way.

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "Rezal" (Dec 20th 2012, 5:20pm)


Mickey

I can't control my signature

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6

Friday, December 14th 2012, 8:06pm

I'm gonna make love to you right now

Edit. Are these assuming full auto or bursting?

MY CURRENT ORIGIN/BLOG NAME: Murrican-Mickey

I say what I want to say and I do what I want to do.
There is no in between.
People will either love you for it or hate you for it.
-Eminem
Inspired by Mickey

LOL Riesig


Riesig seems like the type of person that would jack off in public and think nothing of it.
He does. And people join him anyways.
What, NO!

And then later:


Fapping and lifting 5 gallons of water is dumb.

Also, because i'm skinny asian.

/QQ

My worst fear is not being able to make any more threads.


Rezal

Listen to Rezal!

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  • "Rezal" started this thread

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Location: From the heart of Europe.

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7

Friday, December 14th 2012, 8:12pm

Just three round bursts. Of course no recoil or spread decrease between shots in a burst.
Are you a scrub?

Quoted from "CTE Scrub"

I mean the clearest example of this in Battlefield 4 is the mathematical fact that the FAMAS is putting out 40% higher DPS than the slowest AR the SAR-21, making it the choice when it comes to close combat. It shouldn't be that way.


Mickey

I can't control my signature

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8

Friday, December 14th 2012, 8:26pm

Can we get this stickied?

MY CURRENT ORIGIN/BLOG NAME: Murrican-Mickey

I say what I want to say and I do what I want to do.
There is no in between.
People will either love you for it or hate you for it.
-Eminem
Inspired by Mickey

LOL Riesig


Riesig seems like the type of person that would jack off in public and think nothing of it.
He does. And people join him anyways.
What, NO!

And then later:


Fapping and lifting 5 gallons of water is dumb.

Also, because i'm skinny asian.

/QQ

My worst fear is not being able to make any more threads.


Sao

Moderator

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9

Friday, December 14th 2012, 8:38pm

Stickied. Well done mr KH. Bloody well done.

My Video


I used to be an asker like you, then I took a search bar to the knee....

PhantomShado

I didn't participate in off topic so all I got was this crappy title

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Friday, December 14th 2012, 9:08pm

I was quite critical upon reading the title, but this is a job damn well done.

Spoiler Spoiler

Will it protect against STD's?

I'm a fan of the show, but not a "Brony". I don't obsess over it, but I do watch it and enjoy it.

That's like saying "I suck dick, but I'm not gay."

Fuck dubstep

Are you from the East Coast and love playing Conquest Large as much as I do? If so, add me on Battlelog
It's Muzzle brake, not break. Learn how to fucking spell, already. :rolleyes: