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Slow Learner

Posts: 1,274

Date of registration
: Dec 11th 2011

Platform: 360

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Thursday, July 19th 2012, 6:23pm

Hey guys, I have been putting this chart together piece by piece for a little while now. What I am trying to show is the distance at which you can have the last round of your burst land as a headshot. I am sure a lot of you Symthicians have encountered that "perfect burst" where you let 2, 3 or 4 rounds fly at an enemy who is facing you, and you just perfectly lace the person up and KO them with your final round landing right in their face. This seems to happen within certain distances depending on your attachment combination [and movement speed], and I wanted to figure out what those distances were.
I can draw up a graphic explaining, but for the moment I can show you guys what I have partially completed so far. The charts are going to be for ARs, Carbines and PDWs w/ all attachment combinations (the below image only shows stock weapons). I can update values in the future if they change. Any suggestions on how to display all this as an image would be great, I know I can remove all the recoil, recoil mod, FSM, spread info if I am making a graphic, but I will probably upload it as a Google Doc as well.

Explanation Graphic (4-Round Burst, Stock G3A3):

1.53d = RecoilFinal & 0.63d = 1st Shot Recoil & 0.45d = Recoil

0.757m=Total Y-Displacement (measured from the bottom of the first shot spread to the top of the last shot spread)
0.655m= Center to Center Y-Displacement (where you are aiming)

24.9m=Distance Effective (distance from you that the spread of your last shot will be able to hit a target that is 0.2m in diameter given your spread for that shot.
0.2m=Size of character models head & 1.7m=Height of Character Model

Stock Guns [Simplified Quick View]:

Stock Guns:

All ARs, all attachments [Simplified Quick View]:

All ARs, all attachment combos + AS VAL:

The distances (and consequently the damages) are minorly a bit higher than they will actually be due to me not taking into account bullet drop.

Thanks for the feedback guys!

Edit: Explanation of terms and graphic added. Let me know what else needs clarifying.
"Ain't nothin' soft or sweet, I lift you off your feet
When I cock back the heat, whole crews retreat"

This post has been edited 14 times, last edit by "Lennox 203" (Aug 2nd 2012, 4:36pm)

Slow Learner

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: Dec 11th 2011

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Thursday, July 19th 2012, 6:24pm

Edit notes:
7/20/2012
• The damage values are being calculated incorrectly. I was using the damage charts for the HB version of every weapon (damage drop-off @75m instead of @50m normally)
• Adding in the correct muzzle velocities for HB and suppressed weapons
• initial stock spread was 0.1 for all versions of each weapon except the stock version (no attachments, as seen in the first chart I put up.) this means all but the G3a3 and M16a4 attachment info is being calculated wrong.
• Uploaded the Google Doc, its pretty fucking ugly so see if you can just copy and paste it into your own excel file.
• clarified that the example is of a 4-shot burst from a Stock G3A3

8/2/2012
• Updated Stock weapons chart
• Added a cutout of the G3 values to help explain the example graphic
• Added simplified and full weapon charts
"Ain't nothin' soft or sweet, I lift you off your feet
When I cock back the heat, whole crews retreat"

This post has been edited 5 times, last edit by "Lennox 203" (Aug 2nd 2012, 4:27pm)

Posts: 1,426

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: Jun 23rd 2012

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Location: Germany, Bavaria

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Thursday, July 19th 2012, 6:59pm

The distance is based on the spread + spread increase I assume?
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

### Quoted from "Nick 30075"

Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.

I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

### Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?

Slow Learner

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Thursday, July 19th 2012, 7:01pm

yep, recoil and recoil increase per shot as well.
"Ain't nothin' soft or sweet, I lift you off your feet
When I cock back the heat, whole crews retreat"

Posts: 24

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: Apr 15th 2012

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Thursday, July 19th 2012, 7:52pm

Looking good, I'll certainly be back to see this later when I have more time.

One little thing I noticed though, on your diagram of the soldier, it says the legs are 0.75m and that the rest of the body is 0.85m. Together, this makes 1.6m tall instead of 1.7m. The 0.85m value would have to be 0.95m (as shown by adding the torso, 0.75m and the head, 0.2m).

Slow Learner

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Thursday, July 19th 2012, 8:32pm

### Quoted from "ForeverNewbie"

Looking good, I'll certainly be back to see this later when I have more time.

One little thing I noticed though, on your diagram of the soldier, it says the legs are 0.75m and that the rest of the body is 0.85m. Together, this makes 1.6m tall instead of 1.7m. The 0.85m value would have to be 0.95m (as shown by adding the torso, 0.75m and the head, 0.2m).

Bahahaha thanks, yeah I fucked that up. the 0.85 should be 0.95 That'll change everything minorly. I am assuming the torso and leg height anyway. The only significance of the >0.85[0.95] is to tell if all your shots will be bodyshots + 1 headshot. This minorly effects the overall damage (leg shots are 0.9 (90%) of bodyshots), and was more of a "for fun" stat, but I can change it. I also don't know if you can shoot between a soldiers legs, that would make the first shot a potential miss if that is the case [and the first shot is below torso height].

Every goddamn time! I do some overly complicated math, and i mess up simple addition
"Ain't nothin' soft or sweet, I lift you off your feet
When I cock back the heat, whole crews retreat"

Posts: 1,218

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: Apr 27th 2012

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Friday, July 20th 2012, 1:40pm

Any simpler terms to explain this?
Symthic?

Slow Learner

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Friday, July 20th 2012, 3:39pm

What would you like explained? I uploaded an expanded view of the KH and G3 with all attachments. I am having a hard time figuring out how to display all this info since its so cumbersome
"Ain't nothin' soft or sweet, I lift you off your feet
When I cock back the heat, whole crews retreat"

Posts: 786

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: Apr 26th 2012

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Friday, July 20th 2012, 3:46pm

I've thought about this a few times, but with work and play time, it didn't leave much time for maths. Nice to see someone looking at it.

I'm still getting my head round how spread works, and would love to check my assumptions.

Spread increase - This increases by 0.1 per shot fired. I assume there's a maximum value, but this isn't relevant for the bursts we're considering here.

Spread area - I'd always assumed that spread values gave the potential radial displacement from the aimpoint, so 0.2 spread would mean a shot landing anything up to 0.2deg off, in any direction, describing a circle with 0.4deg from edge to edge. It would surely make sense from a coding point of view to take the aimpoint, then add a random spread deflection being random number x 360deg to get the direction, and random number x spread to get the displacement. But I haven't seen any testing to confirm this.

Either way, it's not that great a distance before spread means you're likely to miss the head with 2nd or 3rd shot, so it might be more useful to discount spread as an uncontrollable factor here and simply use the recoil figures to work out how the point of impact (ignoring spread) of successive shots travels up the body, then accept that as range increases, you're likely to miss anyway.

Either that, or perhaps do the calculations up to say 60 m using normal recoil and then from there to say 150m assuming heavy barrel attachment, to try and negate the effects of spread.

Good work though.

Slow Learner

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Friday, July 20th 2012, 4:40pm

### Quoted from "AL_GR33N_"

I've thought about this a few times, but with work and play time, it didn't leave much time for maths. Nice to see someone looking at it.

I'm still getting my head round how spread works, and would love to check my assumptions.

Spread increase - This increases by 0.1 per shot fired. I assume there's a maximum value, but this isn't relevant for the bursts we're considering here.

Spread area - I'd always assumed that spread values gave the potential radial displacement from the aimpoint, so 0.2 spread would mean a shot landing anything up to 0.2deg off, in any direction, describing a circle with 0.4deg from edge to edge. It would surely make sense from a coding point of view to take the aimpoint, then add a random spread deflection being random number x 360deg to get the direction, and random number x spread to get the displacement. But I haven't seen any testing to confirm this.

Either way, it's not that great a distance before spread means you're likely to miss the head with 2nd or 3rd shot, so it might be more useful to discount spread as an uncontrollable factor here and simply use the recoil figures to work out how the point of impact (ignoring spread) of successive shots travels up the body, then accept that as range increases, you're likely to miss anyway.

Either that, or perhaps do the calculations up to say 60 m using normal recoil and then from there to say 150m assuming heavy barrel attachment, to try and negate the effects of spread.

Good work though.

The max spread is 3.0, so you are correct that it is not very relevant here.
The distance that you can feasibly make a headshot with your final round of a burst is what my chart is trying to show. The limiting factor is the spread of the final round. If you would like I could walk you through an example I can. You did call my attention to how I fucked up the initial spread for the KH (its 0.2 stock, and then i changed it to 0.1 for every attachment after that... for some reason.)

Hopefully my response and Aenonars will help explain how spread works: