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  • "Rezal" started this thread

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Thursday, June 28th 2012, 5:01pm

Long range assault rifle ROF (semi auto)

We have already noticed how recoil seems to decrease much slower than math implies. Enough reason for me to have a look at it and calculate the maximum rpm you can achieve with ARs in semi auto. Why is this important? Because semi auto is the way to go for any >80m engagment.

First recoil decrease:
-Decrease start depends on weapon rate of fire, the higher the ROF, the ealier the decrease starts
-Decrease animation is non-continuous, it consists of 2-4 steps, depending on how much recoil there is to decrease
-ROF differences are very important, the differences from ROF often make up higher/lower recoil
-Recoil decrease indeed takes much longer than math implies

Test methodology:
-Recorded myself shooting a wall (1 meter distance) at 120 fps
-Watched for impact effect and counted frames from there
-Assumed recoil as completely gone when I saw the last step
-Time of flight for 1 meter should be negligible
-Results from 5 shots were averaged
-Used heavy barrel on all ARs
-Used foregrip on the following ARs to be as close to real world usage scenarios as possible: AEK, AUG, F2000, FAMAS, KH2002
-In general, adding a foregrip should slightly improve the semi auto performance in terms of ROF
-Error in ROF is estimated to be around +-10 rpm

Weapon ROF[rpm]:
AN94 burst: 461
KH2002: 387
AN94 semi auto: 316
M416: 316
L85: 316
AK74M: 313
SCAR-L: 311
M16A3: 269
AUG: 267
M16A4: 267
F2000: 265
FAMAS: 267
G3: 269
AEK: 265

(EDITED by Sao, I put them in order, so it's easier for everyone to see)
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Sao" (Jun 30th 2012, 12:24am)


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Thursday, June 28th 2012, 8:27pm

Erm, looks really helpful. But I don't understand.... The weapons with your higher semi auto RPMs are better for range?

ToTheSun!

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Thursday, June 28th 2012, 8:45pm

^ Yes. The higher the rpm values, the faster the recoil settles.

  • "Rezal" started this thread

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Thursday, June 28th 2012, 8:46pm

higher rpm=higher dps, so it is desirable. Of course you should also make sure your minspread is adequate.
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Lennox 203

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Friday, June 29th 2012, 6:05am

Round/minute
/ seconds/minute
(Rnds/min)x(min/sec)=rnd/sec
1/(rnd/sec)=sec/rnd=Seconds Per Round

Your values:
263/60=[263x(1/60)]=4.38rnds/sec
1 sec/4.38rnds/sec=0.228seconds per round
228ms per shot

Calculated recoil recovery:
(2.5x[0.322/rnd])=[0.805/rnd]/(18/sec)=[0.0447sec/rnd]x[1000ms/sec]=44.7ms for recoil recovery
Calculated spread recovery:
(0.1/rnd)+(0.025/rnd)=([0.125/rnd])=[0.125/rnd]/(15/sec)=[0.0083sec/rnd]x[1000ms/sec]=8.3ms for spread recovery

Highest value is the governing one, so:
[1sec/[0.0447sec/rnd]]=[22.37rnds/sec]x[60sec/min]=1342RPM

I suppose that is a little unrealistic/impossible.

So let's try your numbers because we know the recoil numbers aren't wrong:
[0.805/rnd]/[0.228sec/rnd]=3.53/sec

That's a lot less than 18/sec

Very interesting stuff
So I forgot one piece

0.0447/(1/120)=5th maybe 6th frame
0.228/(1/120)=27th maybe 28th frame

Do you notice anything happening 5 frames into the animation?
"Ain't nothin' soft or sweet, I lift you off your feet
When I cock back the heat, whole crews retreat"


This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Lennox 203" (Jun 29th 2012, 6:19am)


  • "Rezal" started this thread

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Friday, June 29th 2012, 7:55am

Recoil recovery won't start until the next shot is ready (maybe even later), like spread recovery, which adds 60000/ROF[rpm] ms to the time between shots. I noticed the time between shots being off by about 80 ms for a few rifles. Will post the measured and calculated numbers later today (I hope). Also, horizontal recoil has to be taken into account as well, but this should add a few ms at best.

I think it's interesting that there's basically 270 and 310 rpm, with only the KH having a significantly different ROF. AN94 burst is a different story.
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Friday, June 29th 2012, 8:59am

Yay, I remember talking about this in a Thread I wrote...and you actually did it! Thanks man. Always wondered.

Now before everyone says OMG AN-94 IS SO GOOD, it's with the burst. The RPM is effectively cut in half in Semi-Auto. The only advantage of the 2x Burst is you get the benefit of 2 shots fired with the subsequent recoil being Delayed AFTER the shots have left the barrel. 2 Shots first, then Both Bullet's recoil.

True AN-94 Semi-Auto = 250'ish. (Not all 2nd Shot Recoil is Given)

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  • "Rezal" started this thread

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8

Friday, June 29th 2012, 12:39pm

Quoted from "everyone"

OMG AN-94 IS SO GOOD








The AN certainly gets a great ROF due to the very low 50 ms between shots in burst and the fairly low recoil. For long ranges, this is offset by the second shot's spread by a certain amount. Let's compare headshots (hitrate for head hitbox only) between AN94 (0.05/0.15) and gripped KH2002 (0.075):



  • 80 m AN94: 100%/60%, effective ROF ~369 rpm
  • 80 m KH2002: 90%, effective ROF ~348 rpm
  • 100 m AN94: 97%/49%, eROF ~337 rpm
  • 100 m KH2002: 81%, eROF ~313 rpm
  • 120 m AN94: 90%/40% eROF ~300 rpm
  • 120 m KH2002: 73%, eROF ~282 rpm
  • 150 m AN94: 81%/32%, eROF ~261 rpm
  • 150 m KH2002: 64%, eROF ~248 rpm
  • 200 m AN94: 69%/24%, eROF ~214 rpm
  • 200 m KH2002: 49%, eROF ~190 rpm
eROF=average hitrate*ROF



The KH can actually keep up quite well, should even be a bit better if you get rid of the grip (and sacrifice effective range for bursts). If it gets the well deserved grip or recoil buff, it should be on par with the AN94. IF it doesn't, I'll reconsider switching.



What should be noted of course is that my ROF from the first post are the very maximum (except for maybe some minor variations due to h recoil). You need perfect rhythm to get those rpm without running off target. I have a short video of myself shooting the KH around 380 rpm average and going off target slightly because I keep clicking faster and faster. The first shots are still good, eventually I run off target.

Video here. 0.25x playback speed. 393 rpm.
[Aristocrat's Shoes]
TLDR -
Teamwork is where players function by themselves, but their effectiveness is multiplied when they work together. Not a checklist of "did we bring a healer so we can start playing?"

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Rezal" (Jun 29th 2012, 12:51pm)


Lennox 203

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Friday, June 29th 2012, 6:48pm

Name = (/sec) "apparent" recoil recovery, its 18 /sec for all ARs on the charts
KH = 2.13
AK74 = 2.35
AN-94 = 2.61
SCAR-L = 2.85
G3 = 3.01
L85 = 3.03
AEK = 3.05
AUG = 3.07
M16a3 = 3.23
M416 = 3.26
M16a4 = 3.58
F2000 = 3.96
FAMAS = 4.42
"Ain't nothin' soft or sweet, I lift you off your feet
When I cock back the heat, whole crews retreat"



  • "Rezal" started this thread

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Friday, June 29th 2012, 7:18pm

Here's the measured duration until recoil has decayed and what we would calculate in ms (horizontal recoil not taken into account):
  • AEK: 226 - 105
  • AK74M: 192 - 117
  • AN94 semi: 190 - 128
  • AUG: 225 - 124
  • F2000: 226 - 120
  • FAMAS: 226 - 115
  • G3: 223 - 151
  • KH2002: 155 - 93
  • L85: 190 - 124
  • M16A3: 223 - 115
  • M16A4: 226 - 120
  • M416: 190 - 114
  • SCAR-L: 193 - 127
[Aristocrat's Shoes]
TLDR -
Teamwork is where players function by themselves, but their effectiveness is multiplied when they work together. Not a checklist of "did we bring a healer so we can start playing?"