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  • "C3461397" started this thread

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1

Friday, April 25th 2014, 4:27pm

Weapon -- 1st Shot number --

Hi,

I do not understand the First Shot Number for each weapon.

The Assault Class has for the M16A4 a 2.5 for the 1st shot number. I take it, the higher the number, the more inaccurate the weapon. But it is so much worse then a number of 2.0?

The charts are great, but they are far too complicated.

Also, the ADS/HIP column. How can you have a value for running, in the prone position?

Thank you fro your help!

C0llis

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Friday, April 25th 2014, 4:39pm

I assume you are referring to the FSM ("first shot multiplier") when you write "1st shot number". The vertical recoil of every first shot in a burst is multiplied with the FSM, a FSM larger than 1 means that the recoil of the first shot in a burst is higher than the recoil for the later shots in a burst and vice-versa for FSM smaller than 1. For semi automatic weapons the FSM is applied to every shot (except in the case where you fire the weapon at exactly maximum RPM, which is practically impossible without using macros).

The FSM indirectly relates to accuracy by making bursting harder due to the inconsistent recoil. So weapons with lower FSMs are easier to burst and are thus (in general) better for longer range combat. The angled/folding grip reduces the FSM and thus makes bursting easier.

Weapons don't have spread values for "running" (I take it you mean "sprinting"), but rather different values for each different stance (standing, crouched and prone) and not moving versus moving, so the value you are referring to "running, prone" is actually for "moving, prone" as in "crawling". If you haven't noticed it you cannot fire a weapon while sprinting.

Edit: Regarding FSM: for burst weapons the FSM is applied to the last shot in the burst rather than the first, so it is applied to the 3rd shot for the M4/M16A4.

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

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Friday, April 25th 2014, 4:43pm

Hi,

I do not understand the First Shot Number for each weapon.

The Assault Class has for the M16A4 a 2.5 for the 1st shot number. I take it, the higher the number, the more inaccurate the weapon. But it is so much worse then a number of 2.0?

The charts are great, but they are far too complicated.

Also, the ADS/HIP column. How can you have a value for running, in the prone position?

Thank you fro your help!

first things first ,the FSM(first shot multiplier) is toward the recoil(only vertical recoil afaik) and doeasn't affect the precision of the weapon,thus,it's relative if 2 is much less than 2.5
2ndthat isn't running,that is "on the move"so to take an example with the m16,it is ads spread equal 0.2 when not moving and 1.0 while moving(nbot affected by stance) , and then it's hipfire spread of 3-2.5-2(standing-crouched-prone) when being still and 3.5-3-2.5 when moving
also, the moving spread is a penalty relative to movement speed,so the nummbers you see on the site are the max speed numbers,not the actual numbers,so this means that when in ads or if you play on console,you get less moving spread than of what is showed on the site(there are charts about real moving ads spread with all kinds of weapons on the site,but i honestly don't know where at the moment)

@C0llis
actually,wasn't it applied on the second shot so that it affects the third? i remember demize saying so...
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bf4
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rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

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C0llis

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4

Friday, April 25th 2014, 5:01pm

@C0llis
actually,wasn't it applied on the second shot so that it affects the third? i remember demize saying so...
Nope.

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

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Friday, April 25th 2014, 5:13pm

@C0llis
actually,wasn't it applied on the second shot so that it affects the third? i remember demize saying so...
Nope.

it's not clear enough,does he mean 2 as 1st and 2nd are easier to control and will go on target with the third being messed up or will all 3 of the shots go where they shuld,but then with a 4th shot you'll see your bullet hitting somewhere different?
"I'm just a loot whore."


stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

link to full-size old avatar:
http://i.imgur.com/4X0321O.gif




C0llis

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6

Friday, April 25th 2014, 5:19pm

@C0llis
actually,wasn't it applied on the second shot so that it affects the third? i remember demize saying so...
Nope.

it's not clear enough,does he mean 2 as 1st and 2nd are easier to control and will go on target with the third being messed up or will all 3 of the shots go where they shuld,but then with a 4th shot you'll see your bullet hitting somewhere different?
"You get 2 low recoil shots." This means that the third shot will have higher recoil, as in "have the FSM applied to it".

Also: "Burst Mode on weapons moves the First Shot Modifier to the 3rd round instead of the first.". That is pretty clear IMO.

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "C0llis" (Apr 25th 2014, 5:41pm)


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Friday, April 25th 2014, 5:25pm

Simplifying everything, for the first shot you fire (whether it be the first shot in a long burst or a single shot in semiautomatic) gets the first shot multiplier added to its vertical recoil.

Let's say your gun has a vertical recoil of .3 and a FSM of 2.0. You fire a pair of five-round bursts, the first shot has .6 vertical recoil and the next four shots have .3 vertical recoil. Your sixth shot has .6 recoil and the next four have .3 because you took your finger off of the trigger and have to experience the FSM again. If you're to fire the same weapon in semiautomatic (one-round mode), every shot has .6 vertical recoil.

For guns which have a burst-fire mode (like the M16A4), the first shot recoil is actually applied to the last shot in a burst. It's kind of counterintuitive (isn't it first-shot multiplier), but that's how DICE did it.



The values on the charts aren't for running, they're for maximum walking speed. The spread your gun has is a function of how quickly you're moving while you're aimed down sights. The game uses the values in the charts for moving speed in the calculation--the faster you move, the closer to the value in the charts you achieve. On PC, you can't really set your movement speed while aimed down sights, but you can on console.
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Friday, April 25th 2014, 6:17pm

@C0llis
actually,wasn't it applied on the second shot so that it affects the third? i remember demize saying so...
Nope.

it's not clear enough,does he mean 2 as 1st and 2nd are easier to control and will go on target with the third being messed up or will all 3 of the shots go where they shuld,but then with a 4th shot you'll see your bullet hitting somewhere different?
"You get 2 low recoil shots." This means that the third shot will have higher recoil, as in "have the FSM applied to it".

Also: "Burst Mode on weapons moves the First Shot Modifier to the 3rd round instead of the first.". That is pretty clear IMO.

ok,so it will be like 1 or 2?
:
kataklism has attached the following file:
  • recoil burst.png (13.22 kB - 31 times downloaded - latest: Sep 14th 2014, 10:03am)
"I'm just a loot whore."


stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

link to full-size old avatar:
http://i.imgur.com/4X0321O.gif




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Friday, April 25th 2014, 6:34pm

>BF3
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C0llis

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Friday, April 25th 2014, 7:04pm

@kataklism

1.

@C3461397

I didn't realize this was in the BF3 section before, but what we said about the FSM holds true for BF3 as well as BF4 - the only exception is that the FSM is applied to to first shot for all weapons, even burst fire ones. It is only in BF4 the FSM is applied to the third shot for burst fire weapons.

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "C0llis" (Apr 25th 2014, 7:46pm)