Welcome to symthic forums! We would love if you'd register!
You don't have to be expert in bit baking, everyone is more than welcome to join our community.

You are not logged in.

Hey! If this is your first visit on symthic.com, also check out our weapon damage charts.
Currently we have charts for Battlefield 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, Medal of Honor: Warfighter and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

Forger21

for all your voodoo needs

(512)

  • "Forger21" started this thread

Posts: 194

Date of registration
: Jul 2nd 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 10

  • Send private message

1

Monday, April 8th 2013, 8:59pm

Powerful Infantry Weapons Treated Like Vehicles Instead of Gadgets

Powerful infantry weapons like mortars and flamethrowers have been implemented in Battlefield games, but, in order to balance them with other weapons and gadgets, they have had severe limits placed on their effectiveness.

The flamethrower in BFBC2 Vietnam, for example, had an extremely short range, and being engulfed in its flames not only killed slowly, but did not impede you from fighting back or recovering immediately afterward. It had to be balanced that way, otherwise everybody and their mother would have been running around with a flamethrower.

What I would like to suggest, is that powerful infantry weapons like mortars, flamethrowers, tripod-based heavy machine guns, tripod-based TOW rockets, and perhaps even the infamous anti-material rifle, could be implemented in a future Battlefield title, like BF4, by giving them some of the characteristics of vehicles.

Unlike gadgets or weapons, which must be balanced around the fact that any number of people could carry them on any map, vehicles are map spawnable, and can be made far more powerful as there are limits on their availability. A BF3 tank or jet is a powerful force on the battlefield, but it still fits within the context of the battlefield.

Let's take the flamethrower as an example. Give the flamethrower a more realistic range and deadliness, but balance it within the context of the battlefield by giving it some of the characteristics of a vehicle. It's map spawnable, maybe each team gets one or two in their uncap, maybe you actually have to capture a base in order to find one. You have to 'enter' the flamethrower with your use button, just like with a vehicle, and while you are 'inside' the flamethrower, certain restrictions apply. Perhaps you cannot sprint as quickly or jump as often and cannot use any other weapons without first 'exiting' the flamethrower. Maybe you can be 'shot out' of the flamethrower and it can be stolen. It can spawn only on maps where it is appropriate. This isn't a vehicle characteristic, but you could also place strict limits on its available ammo or reload speed, to prevent it being spammed.

In this way, you get to have the fun and cinematic destructiveness of a proper, realistically devastating flamethrower in the game without turning Battlefield into Firefield.

This idea can be applied to other powerful infantry weapons as well (special thanks to Aranshada for pointing this out to me as we were discussing flamethrowers). Mortars that don't have to be balanced around the possibility that dozens of people could be using them at once. TOW rockets that you can move around the battlefield and set up wherever you'd like, rather than being fixed in certain places (maybe it takes a few moments to set something like this in place, and you're also vulnerable while you're moving it). Shoulder-launched AA weapons that are actually deadly enough to be used to deny airspace over part of the map, but can't be used by everybody to deny airspace over the entire map.

There are still some aspects of this to be worked out, for example, how you would board a transport vehicle when you are already carrying a flamethrower, but I hope this would be a step in the direction of giving players fun, real-life battlefield toys to play with on their virtual battlefield, without making games into an unplayable nightmare or weakening those toys beyond recognition.

Thoughts?
2143

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Forger21" (Apr 8th 2013, 9:17pm)


Misnomer

Don't Prox Me Bro

(497)

Posts: 581

Date of registration
: Sep 4th 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 7

  • Send private message

2

Monday, April 8th 2013, 10:23pm

You have a problem with distribution then.

Main base? Will only be used on the first rush on big maps. Think of even the vodniks that get left behind. Spawning ahead on your squad lead is usually far more useful.

Scattered about the map? Only marginally useful unless placed on the flags themselves. Also creates an arbitrary learning curve to find all the weapon locations that is biased against new players unless every weapon shown on minimap...then clutters minimap.

Spawn into them like AC-130? Maybe, though it makes it harder for someone who hasn't died to get to use a fun tool. Still, can be an option.

I prefer having the weapons spawn at the flags or be accessible through an "armory box" at a flag once per capture. It gives you incentive to PTFO and you could generate timed armory boxes for Rush (get one at beginning and one after each MCOM destruction). This still limits your ability to use the entire battlefield and apply special weapons situationally though.

I would love a system like this though so we could have properly powerful Javs and Stingers.

Forger21

for all your voodoo needs

(512)

  • "Forger21" started this thread

Posts: 194

Date of registration
: Jul 2nd 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 10

  • Send private message

3

Monday, April 8th 2013, 11:27pm

You could have them spawn at flags or in the uncap and also show up in the spawn menu for direct spawning, just like tanks in more recent maps. I agree that there is an issue with distribution when the mobility of a powerful asset like that is limited to the speed of someone walking, but if you can bring these things with you on a jeep or other transport vehicle, it shouldn't be any worse for you to get around with one of these weapons then it is to get around as ordinary infantry.
2143

Posts: 486

Date of registration
: Apr 2nd 2013

Platform: Xbox One

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 7

  • Send private message

4

Monday, April 8th 2013, 11:50pm

While its a good idea, I see it hard to balance, for example going off the anti-material rifle, your suggestion makes it sound as though any class can get it, or are you suggesting that each class will get its "own" weapon so there aren't any assaults running around with mortars or javs? If that's the case I can see a step towards balance. Its my opinion that they could implement more powerful infantry weapons, if they implemented a speed system like warfighter or CoD. This is to simulate the idea that the more powerful weapons weigh more. You don't have a bad idea, its just hard for me to see how this system could be implemented properly without creating OP or UP assets.

Misnomer

Don't Prox Me Bro

(497)

Posts: 581

Date of registration
: Sep 4th 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 7

  • Send private message

5

Tuesday, April 9th 2013, 12:05am

While its a good idea, I see it hard to balance, for example going off the anti-material rifle, your suggestion makes it sound as though any class can get it, or are you suggesting that each class will get its "own" weapon so there aren't any assaults running around with mortars or javs? If that's the case I can see a step towards balance. Its my opinion that they could implement more powerful infantry weapons, if they implemented a speed system like warfighter or CoD. This is to simulate the idea that the more powerful weapons weigh more. You don't have a bad idea, its just hard for me to see how this system could be implemented properly without creating OP or UP assets.



The way it has been done traditionally in BF mods (yes there were PC mods that already used this idea) is that when you pickup that weapon you are picking up a new kit. This differs from the concept of it being a "vehicle" but you could make it to be essentially that...when you pick it up your kit disappears and you become a "heavy weapons soldier" with only that heavy weapon and maybe a pistol. Only if you drop that kit or weapon do you get yours back.

Personally I prefer sacrificing your kit entirely to pick up the special kit. Use up the stingers and you have a pistol and that's it. Maybe you could give them a stripped down pdw or something simple as a sidearm I suppose.

Forger21

for all your voodoo needs

(512)

  • "Forger21" started this thread

Posts: 194

Date of registration
: Jul 2nd 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 10

  • Send private message

6

Tuesday, April 9th 2013, 12:29am

when you pick it up your kit disappears and you become a "heavy weapons soldier" with only that heavy weapon and maybe a pistol. Only if you drop that kit or weapon do you get yours back.

This is how I was thinking of it. While you carried the particular heavy weapon you would not have access to any of your kit's weapons or gadgets. Just like when you hop into a tank in BF3.

Its my opinion that they could implement more powerful infantry weapons, if they implemented a speed system like warfighter or CoD. This is to simulate the idea that the more powerful weapons weigh more.

I would definitely have these weapons limit the speed at which you could move, it makes sense you wouldn't be able to run around with one of these strapped to your back.

Personally I prefer sacrificing your kit entirely to pick up the special kit. Use up the stingers and you have a pistol and that's it. Maybe you could give them a stripped down pdw or something simple as a sidearm I suppose.

I see where you are coming from here, but is it really necessary to make the transition from your original kit to the heavy weapon 'kit' or 'vehicle' permanent? After all, the people who use tanks can jump out at any time and regain all the use of their original kit. I don't see how these would be any different.
2143

NoctyrneSAGA

PvF 2017 Champion

(10,156)

Posts: 7,231

Date of registration
: Apr 3rd 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

  • Send private message

7

Tuesday, April 9th 2013, 12:58am

I've stated this idea before when I suggested that .50 cal snipers be emplaced. Anti-materiel rifles could be placed so that they overlook long roads such as the construction buildings at D on Firestorm. Since flamethrowers are banned IIRC, I don't think they'll be added. If they were, I'd imagine that they'd be a vehicle upgrade and be placed close to objectives or on roads leading to them. They'd be used for area denial. TOW and HMG should be done like BC2. The mortar could very well be done similar to the MGS4 demo where it was placed up on a balcony IIRC. By making them emplaced, they can be extremely powerful but leave the user exposed because everyone knows where you are. My argument is that the visibility of such a site will balance its deadliness.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

"Skill" may indeed be the most magical of words. Chant it well enough and any desire can be yours.

Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

Posts: 84

Date of registration
: Feb 21st 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 5

  • Send private message

8

Tuesday, April 9th 2013, 1:12am

I think this is a really interesting idea but I fear a couple of things:

- team killing and idiot behavior over obtaining the scarce weapons. We get enough of this with idiots bogarting the attack chopper.
- killing sprees from those 1-2 guys with the anti-material rifle, etc. Vehicles can have powerful cannons because they are balanced by a severe lack of agility and nearly zero places to go and hide.

However I think more emplacement weapons would be fun, and they should be destructible like TOWs in BF2.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Autosynthesis" (Apr 9th 2013, 12:00pm)


J35T3R

Punctual Joker

(74)

Posts: 1,213

Date of registration
: Mar 21st 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 6

  • Send private message

9

Tuesday, April 9th 2013, 2:31am

As i have stated previously elsewhere they can implement an anti material rifle the same way they did with the mortar player gets into it like a vehicle also player misses out on a primary if he has it equipt... it also needs limited ammunition and a very slow rof for balance purposes..
PC: Platform: PC





youtube chanel HIPFIREGAMER - YouTube

Posts: 1,111

Date of registration
: Jun 24th 2012

Platform: Xbox One

Location: The Winner's podium

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 14

  • Send private message

10

Tuesday, April 9th 2013, 2:50am

The World Champion mocks those that think a anti-material rifle can only be a sniper rifle.
You have just read a Post by The World Champion and now feel smarter for doing so.
-------
Cham·pi·on
noun \ˈcham-pē-ən\

1 : Warrior, Fighter
2 : a militant advocate or defender <a champion of civil rights>
3 : one that does battle for another's rights or honor <God will raise me up a champion — Sir Walter Scott>
4 : a winner of first prize or first place in competition; also : one who shows marked superiority <The champion of the World>