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  • "SmoothHavok" started this thread

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Sunday, September 30th 2012, 9:31pm

Something I've Been Considering (Life, Liberty, and Battlefield 4 Talk)

That something is, would it be possible to save the Battlefield series.

And by that I mean if Symthic (as the community of collective intellectual gamers that we are) is able to make an impact where it counts right now: Battlefield 4.

If you sit back and think about it, Battlefield 3 is too far gone. Yeah, we dropped our .02 where we could and somethings did happen; just look at all the weapon re-balancing that took place in almost every major patch. But still, with the awkward Beta release that came off suspiciously as something more of a gaming demo, the speedy release for a game that was clearly not complete in the entirety we expected, it's clear [or at least to what I believe it to be] that BF3 was just a prototype for Battlefield 4. Which, unexpectedly seems to be coming out before Bad Company 3 (which if it's going to be anything like BC2, I'm highly anticipating). So we missed our chance to impact BF3 where it mattered - before and during the supposed Beta they gave us. But Symthic is present, and we know that BF4 is already in development. Perhaps farther than we might think. But it's early enough that we can still drop some knowledge on the devs before we get a BF3 incarnate (which I hope to avoid though I still think it's a great game to play with friends) with BC2 destruction. Considering that that's what the devs might see as an improvement on their part. Which, I hope I can speak on the community's behalf when I say, clearly it's not. The weapons aren't as balanced as they could be, the classes definitely aren't balanced as they could be, vehicle vs infantry needs to be tweaked somewhat (especially AA aspects), and certain features need to be re-thought out entirely. And (bare with me, I understand I've used 'and' in the beginning of every other sentence) I think, because this community now exists and we are aware of BF4's upcoming, we have a chance to positively impact it. My idea - Sym and the team make a separate board for a BF4 Think Tank. Here, we would compile what needs to be addressed from BF3 that shouldn't happen again, as well put up some ideas of our own: new weapons we would like to see, game modes, vehicles (not going into maps, that's really beyond on opinion seeing as we don't know what the Campaign is like). Once we have everything down in a well organized and respectful format, we should endorse it, and pitch the our compilation of suggestions to the devs. Twitter, email, Reddit, Symthic Forums, the whole nine yards. Heck, I want this to be taken so seriously that the BF4 Think Tank (should it come to actuation) should be accessible to members with certain credentials, just to avoid any unnecessary...stuff . But that's up to the rest of the community. The board would need to be taken seriously - if we are going to be real about this, we are holding the fate of triple A title in our hands here. Not just that, but also the enjoyment and money of other gamers. So with that, I hope you guys see where I'm coming from - as a community of players who know [more about the game than the devs] a lot about the game, we should try to make sure we can help DICE (or whoever is developing BF4) put out the best product that we know they can put out.

So if we're going to start at all, why not here in this thread?
G3A3 or bust

Gunners and passengers are just for show.

Souperintendent

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  • "Souperintendent" has been banned

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Sunday, September 30th 2012, 9:35pm

PARAGRAPHS ARE YOUR FRIEND!

On topic, I think that we should wait to see what Battlefield 4 is like before we start discussing it. I have very low expectations for it, because it's running on a CoD schedule, but we should at least wait and see before we start discussing it like we currently discuss BF3.

feci.

Quotes of the Ages:

Also, sad day when your phone corrects FAMAS to be in caps. Damn it.

That's not bad. My phone corrected "lets deforest Caspian Boarder" into "Lets de-foreskin Asians".... I think my phone is a racist pervert....

I would start singing Disney, but then I would be led on a path of destruction, eventually ending up with a boyfriend who is actually a skull with Macaroni and cheese.


a la Miley Cyrus

An edit by Auto in response to a couple of images of dead Union soldiers from the US Civil War:
Not what Auto wanted to see whilst eating his breakfast.... Put me off my cheerios dammit:/

God I feel like someone just hit me over the head with a bust of Sigmund Freud :D
Fucking hell!

Pandemic 2 made me hate Madagascar more than any other country in the world.

Nick 30075

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Sunday, September 30th 2012, 9:42pm

Let's start with a simple question related to classes.

Four or five?

I favor:
Assault--ARs, M320/M26, AutoInjector
Engineer--PDWs, Rockets, Torch/Mines
Support--LMGs, Medkits, Ammo
Specialist--Carbines, C4/Claymores/etc, Motion Sensors
Sniper--Sniper Rifles, Soflam/Mortar Strike, Claymores
Note the absence of Defibs.


Suppression, as a mechanic, needs to be gone (in my opinion).

Much as I don't think it will happen, damage needs to be based on RoF rather than caliber.
Emperor Nick of the Cult of Defibrillation
Sith Deity of Thread-Killing


I'm basically just a degenerate weeb who doesn't post much nowadays.

I'm secretly Old Man Symthic

Siggy thingies


Gaming Stuff


Words of Wisdom (not really)

Quoted from "Blue Panda"

You're fedorable :love:

Quoted from "ToTheSun!"

I have the highest postcount. Nick doesn't count.

Quoted

23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: I'm -
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: Okay
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: I'm stabbing everyone
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: Bye guys
23:44 Nick: *flips table*
23:44 Legion: Bye, happy stabbing
23:44 *** Lt_Col_Jesus quit (Quit: off to murder the public at large).

Quoted

10:41 LB: You just...reanimated Steve Jobs.
10:41 Dice: Well that would be unfortunate, I was just getting used to him being dead.

Quoted from "Pheozero"

... fuck. Damn you hindsight!

Quoted

23:58 Failure117: CAUSE IM FREEE
23:58 Nick: AS A BIIIIRD NOW
23:58 Failure117: FREEE OF NICK'S WORM RAPE

Quoted

ViperFTW: HEY LOOK
ViperFTW: AN ALIEN LASER FISH THE SIZE OF THE SUN
ViperFTW: I WANT TO SWAT IT WITH MY COMICLY LARGE SWORD
ViperFTW: WITH
ViperFTW: THIS
ViperFTW: AS
ViperFTW: MY
ViperFTW: FUUUUCKING SOUNDTRACK :DDDD
(the album in question)


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Sunday, September 30th 2012, 9:43pm

because it's running on a CoD schedule, but we should at least wait and see before we start discussing it like we currently discuss BF3.



Seriously?

Battlefield games coming out every 1 to 2 years for the last decade is now a "CoD schedule"?

As for the TC.

That did not help my reading experience one bit. in fact I find that large block to be rather detrimental to it.
You have just read a Post by The World Champion and now feel smarter for doing so.
-------
Cham·pi·on
noun \ˈcham-pē-ən\

1 : Warrior, Fighter
2 : a militant advocate or defender <a champion of civil rights>
3 : one that does battle for another's rights or honor <God will raise me up a champion — Sir Walter Scott>
4 : a winner of first prize or first place in competition; also : one who shows marked superiority <The champion of the World>

  • "SmoothHavok" started this thread

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Sunday, September 30th 2012, 9:57pm

First things first; gameplay philosophy.

We can all agree that at it's heart, Battlefield is an arcade shooter. And that's okay. It isn't a sym, but it is authentic in that it tries to properly portray certain IRL aspects, only, scaled down to video game terms. If that makes sense. It has spread, recoil, heck even differing reload times depending on whether or not there is a round in the chamber. Pretty authentic for a arcade FPS. But if there was one slight oversight that really held this game back, it was the idea of having generalized damage based off the bullet.

When talking about weapon balancing, I like to point to BC2. Yeah, it took a while, but eventually BC2 became one of the most well balanced games I've ever had the joy of playing. Every weapon had it's niche; not necessarily a role it had to cling to (though weapons statistics will obviously weigh in on where it shines the most) but that each gun just had its own personality. Though a lot of the guns were chambered in the same 5.56 round (thinking Assault right now as that is my main steeze, and frankly a lot of the guns from both BF3 and BC2 were 5.56) they didn't necessarily share the same damage, damage drop off, or minimum damage. And not to mention, iron sights and looks played a lot to do with what gun you liked. I mean, in all honesty the AUG probably isn't the most ideal gun to use. But a lot of people liked the iron sights or it's look or even how the GL attached beneath it. Basically put, BC2 wasn't all about the stats, because they put balance over authenticity in terms of weapon balance/statistics. And this is something I would like to see revisted in BF4. Then we might avoid the M16 debacle that we've seen pretty much since the launch of BF3.

On the other hand (now I'm going to play devil's advocate), seeing the damage based on bullet was interesting and carries an air of authenticity with it. I like how bigger bullets did more damage and smaller ones less. It makes sense mostly, right? However, I disliked how the gun itself, indpendent of the bullet, played only two roles; recoil and RoF. With this generalization of bullets for damage, the guns become obsolete, because they are all on the same playing level. And so, damage is overlooked for recoil and RoF. Where as in BC2, it was a combination of all 3 aspects (or 4 with the inclusion of what is a pretty decent spread feature), that can be taken into account to. If damage-based-off-bullet-generalization is the path that BF4 is going, then the only aspects that need to be considered as a whole as well as individually, are the other 3 aspects of a weapon; RoF, recoil, and spread. First, when balancing, it should be looked at from the big picture of things; what role is it playing, and how will we balance it with the rest. Then, after that has been thoroughly considered, you can get into the individuality of the gun, making it different from Gun A and Gun B, all of which fit in the same picture from the objective view point. And once thoroughly thought out, you take it back to the overall view. Is it still viable, is it still balanced. And to be frank with the forum, I'd rather of a lot of guns (and I don't mean a ridiculous amount either to the point where we pull out experimental or outdated guns) that are moderately similar than a few guns that differ enough that the gaming community finds that Jack-of-all-Trade weapons. At least with the "tons-of-guns" approach, stats will then be set aside for general feel and looks. Remember BC2's sniper scopes? 8)

So really, the balancing needs to be done thoroughly. You can either go BC2's route with balance>authenticity

Or the authenticity route, where pretty much as IRL, the guns are all relatively the same, and it comes down to "How does this gun look and feel".

Hope I was able to kickstart some conversation and brainstorming with this wall of text.

Remember, it doesn't just have to be weapon balancing. Do you want to see more classes, less, mixed, a new game mode, new vehicles, vehicle balancing, all that good stuff.

EDIT: I agree with Nick, 5 classes and no suppression.
G3A3 or bust

Gunners and passengers are just for show.

Nick 30075

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Sunday, September 30th 2012, 10:06pm

Which factions are we going to see?

The problem with the BC2 model was that the faster-firing weapons kind of got shafted. The F2000 emptied its mag much faster than the M416 but had the same DPS. It traded nothing for something. So we have to consider this factor as well.
Emperor Nick of the Cult of Defibrillation
Sith Deity of Thread-Killing


I'm basically just a degenerate weeb who doesn't post much nowadays.

I'm secretly Old Man Symthic

Siggy thingies


Gaming Stuff


Words of Wisdom (not really)

Quoted from "Blue Panda"

You're fedorable :love:

Quoted from "ToTheSun!"

I have the highest postcount. Nick doesn't count.

Quoted

23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: I'm -
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: Okay
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: I'm stabbing everyone
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: Bye guys
23:44 Nick: *flips table*
23:44 Legion: Bye, happy stabbing
23:44 *** Lt_Col_Jesus quit (Quit: off to murder the public at large).

Quoted

10:41 LB: You just...reanimated Steve Jobs.
10:41 Dice: Well that would be unfortunate, I was just getting used to him being dead.

Quoted from "Pheozero"

... fuck. Damn you hindsight!

Quoted

23:58 Failure117: CAUSE IM FREEE
23:58 Nick: AS A BIIIIRD NOW
23:58 Failure117: FREEE OF NICK'S WORM RAPE

Quoted

ViperFTW: HEY LOOK
ViperFTW: AN ALIEN LASER FISH THE SIZE OF THE SUN
ViperFTW: I WANT TO SWAT IT WITH MY COMICLY LARGE SWORD
ViperFTW: WITH
ViperFTW: THIS
ViperFTW: AS
ViperFTW: MY
ViperFTW: FUUUUCKING SOUNDTRACK :DDDD
(the album in question)


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Sunday, September 30th 2012, 10:07pm

I think this is pointless tbh. We can speculate, which we've already done in various other threads. But there's still more than a year for BF4 to come out, we don't know what it will be like at all, our 'ideas' at this point therefore don't have a certain 'concept' to concentrate on and not only will they be long forgotten when BF4 comes out, DICE won't listen to them.
Symthic?

Souperintendent

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Sunday, September 30th 2012, 10:08pm

because it's running on a CoD schedule, but we should at least wait and see before we start discussing it like we currently discuss BF3.



Seriously?

Battlefield games coming out every 1 to 2 years for the last decade is now a "CoD schedule"?


Battlefield 2 came out in 2005. Battlefield 3 came out in 2011. Bravo, we brought back an awesome game series! And then two years later we get BF4 (if the early beta access from MoH is any indication). Call of Duty series come out biannually (i.e. Modern Warfare comes out in 2007, MW2 comes out in 2009, MW3 comes out in 2011), and it seems Battlefield is going to follow the same course.

And we also must not forget that EA is publishing it and setting the release dates. Crysis 1 came out in 2007, then Crytek got bought by EA, and Crysis 2 came out in 2011, and then Crysis 3 comes out in 2013. Two years.

Mass Effect 1 came out in 2007, then BioWare got bought by EA, and Mass Effect 2 came out in 2010, and then Mass Effect 3 was scheduled to come out in 2011, but got pushed back three months (and still sucked). That's two years.

EA is trying to follow in Activision's shoes. You can't deny that.

feci.

Quotes of the Ages:

Also, sad day when your phone corrects FAMAS to be in caps. Damn it.

That's not bad. My phone corrected "lets deforest Caspian Boarder" into "Lets de-foreskin Asians".... I think my phone is a racist pervert....

I would start singing Disney, but then I would be led on a path of destruction, eventually ending up with a boyfriend who is actually a skull with Macaroni and cheese.


a la Miley Cyrus

An edit by Auto in response to a couple of images of dead Union soldiers from the US Civil War:
Not what Auto wanted to see whilst eating his breakfast.... Put me off my cheerios dammit:/

God I feel like someone just hit me over the head with a bust of Sigmund Freud :D
Fucking hell!

Pandemic 2 made me hate Madagascar more than any other country in the world.

  • "SmoothHavok" started this thread

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Sunday, September 30th 2012, 10:11pm


Which factions are we going to see?

The problem with the BC2 model was that the faster-firing weapons kind of got shafted. The F2000 emptied its mag much faster than the M416 but had the same DPS. It traded nothing for something. So we have to consider this factor as well.
True. The only thing I have in mind for balancing is giving the F2000 slightly more damage a the cost of recoil. Either that, or damage drop off nerf for one of them. Or possible lower the RoF of the F2000 slightly, (950-980RPM) keep it's recoil, and have it some the damage drop off is more severe than the M416. Easy enough work around compared to what we have now. But of course, situations like that do need to be considered and weighed in heavily when approaching the weapons balance


TO SOUPERINTENDENT: The only thing with waiting for release media on BF4 is that it would be too late. Look at BF3. And Yes, the fact that they're running on CoD schedule is debilitating them.
G3A3 or bust

Gunners and passengers are just for show.

Nick 30075

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Sunday, September 30th 2012, 10:18pm

I was citing the F2K as an example, not as a weapon to balance already.
Emperor Nick of the Cult of Defibrillation
Sith Deity of Thread-Killing


I'm basically just a degenerate weeb who doesn't post much nowadays.

I'm secretly Old Man Symthic

Siggy thingies


Gaming Stuff


Words of Wisdom (not really)

Quoted from "Blue Panda"

You're fedorable :love:

Quoted from "ToTheSun!"

I have the highest postcount. Nick doesn't count.

Quoted

23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: I'm -
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: Okay
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: I'm stabbing everyone
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: Bye guys
23:44 Nick: *flips table*
23:44 Legion: Bye, happy stabbing
23:44 *** Lt_Col_Jesus quit (Quit: off to murder the public at large).

Quoted

10:41 LB: You just...reanimated Steve Jobs.
10:41 Dice: Well that would be unfortunate, I was just getting used to him being dead.

Quoted from "Pheozero"

... fuck. Damn you hindsight!

Quoted

23:58 Failure117: CAUSE IM FREEE
23:58 Nick: AS A BIIIIRD NOW
23:58 Failure117: FREEE OF NICK'S WORM RAPE

Quoted

ViperFTW: HEY LOOK
ViperFTW: AN ALIEN LASER FISH THE SIZE OF THE SUN
ViperFTW: I WANT TO SWAT IT WITH MY COMICLY LARGE SWORD
ViperFTW: WITH
ViperFTW: THIS
ViperFTW: AS
ViperFTW: MY
ViperFTW: FUUUUCKING SOUNDTRACK :DDDD
(the album in question)