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NoctyrneSAGA

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Saturday, March 3rd 2018, 7:51am

LMG Average Case Effective TTK Apocalypse

Methodology is the same as my previous threads.



Acknowledged shortcomings:

Similar to previous threads.

LMGs are typically used against big crowds. These charts measure an LMG's ability to eliminate a single enemy. Weapons that ordinarily would shine with burst lengths larger than 10 won't show that.

Weapons that shine beyond 50m will not show that here either.

These charts include the wind-up. Bipodded LMGs will not resemble this chart. Rather, they would probably resemble a bigger burst where minSpread has been achieved and hRec is modulating damage.



BAR M1918



MG15



M1909



Huot



Lewis



Madsen



Chauchat



MG14



Perino



M1917



lMG 08/18



Oops

BAR M1918



MG15



M1909



Huot



Lewis



Madsen



Chauchat



MG14



Perino



M1917



lMG 08/18



Full sheet here



Takeaways:

Unless you are using a "CQB LMG" you will get a wall of same-ish numbers.

Longer bursts are better bursts unless you are using CQB LMGs.

Storm and Optical packages do wonders for off-bipod accuracy thanks to their hRec bonus.

I doubt Optical packages need a buff.



MG14 and lMG08/18 are solid CQB picks but are terrible everywhere else. Use the bipod.

Madsen has surprisingly good performance across multiple ranges.

M1909, Huot, and Perino are very good for 30-50m. Bipod would help but probably isn't necessary.

Chauchat and MG15 look pretty mediocre. The Lewis is very close to being mediocre too. Use the bipod.

The M1917 probably was meant to be fired from its bipod.

BAR is a solid pick across many ranges.



The Huot Optical doesn't provide a performance gain in these ranges and burst lengths. It is actually worse due to slower recovery.

It might be good for longer distances and bigger bursts but these show signs the Huot Optical really is a troll variant.
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Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "NoctyrneSAGA" (Mar 4th 2018, 6:46am)


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Saturday, March 3rd 2018, 1:29pm

It's odd to see the Chauchat perform with so much mediocrity compared to the BAR. I guess you pay a bit for the longer uptime and better, ranged bipod performance.

Also a bit surprising to see the MG15 lack so much, then again, it's got a bunch of rounds, so it makes sense 1v1s aren't ideal for it.

But overall, seems pretty balanced, even the bad ones, barring the Huot Optical (what a piece of garbage lol) seem to be viable in specific situations.

Nice graph, cheers.

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Saturday, March 3rd 2018, 3:30pm

Hmm, why does it take the Chauchat 1.1s to land 4 shots at 30-50m in single-shot mode?

It can fire at 299+ RPM at min spread, so from a quick calculation, I'd have it at just over 0.6s to get the job done.

Are you waiting for recoil to (unnecessarily) fully reset or something? If so, that can't be the most practical way of going about calculating this.


EDIT: In fact, recoil decrease can't be the limiting factor here; the Parabellum can land 5 shots in 1s according to your methodology.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Shalan" (Mar 3rd 2018, 3:53pm)


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Saturday, March 3rd 2018, 10:02pm

The Huot Optical doesn't provide a performance gain in these ranges and burst lengths. It is actually worse due to slower recovery.

It might be good for longer distances and bigger bursts but these show signs the Huot Optical really is a troll variant.

10RB ADS Not Moving spread values, off-hand (you know this already so I just list them here for the others):

Huot LW
- 0.180 | 0.604 | 0.498 | 0.392 | 0.286 | 0.180 | 0.180 | 0.180 | 0.180 | 0.180
Huot Optical
- 0.135 | 0.605 | 0.511 | 0.417 | 0.323 | 0.229 | 0.135 | 0.135 | 0.135 | 0.135

The "overtake" point for the Huot Optical to be projected to out-damage the Huot LW with an off-hand 10RB is just short of 70m.

70m ADS Not Moving 10RB expected damage:

Huot LW - 140.9287202
Huot Optical - 144.1030072

Of course the gap widens the further you go. At 125m ADS Not Moving:

Huot LW - 78.92008329
Huot Optical - 92.60366744

...but at this range, neither Sight is "useable," and the LW additionally gives you the Bipod option.

Still, I consider the Huot Optical to be pretty far from a "troll variant." Instead, I consider it to be the Huot... with the Optical "package" attached to it, with the pros and cons that implies. It is useful to a guy like me who detests Bipods, and I am more effective with it than with the LW.

To recap, the Huot Optical > Huot LW if... 1) you shoot 70m+ and 2) don't use the Bipod. Perhaps not desirable to the majority of the user-base, but not nothing either.

-----

Suppressive LMGs vs. LW, on the other hand, I just don't get at all:

IMG 08-18 Low Weight vs IMG 08-18 Suppressive | BF1 Weapon Comparison | Symthic
Parabellum MG14 Low Weight vs Parabellum MG14 Suppressive | BF1 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

Note: "Advantages" for the Suppressive are actually DISadvantages. So, really, they've got nothing, stats-wise.

-----

And who can forget this travesty:

Martini-Henry Infantry vs Martini-Henry Sniper | BF1 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

-----

Disclaimer: I did the majority of my Support work with the M1909 Optical, and then recently "discovered" the Madsen Trench, the latter of which has my highest KpM by far. Post "TTK Patch" then I've started using the Lewis Optical more. The reason why I don't "main" the Huot Optical is simply due to aesthetics: the model has the Foregrip but your character does not grasp it, instead still holding onto the drum magazine as the LW. I like that the M1909 guy does hold it properly, but I still try to go back to the Lewis Optical because 1) it is the only one with the Sights mounted centrally down the bore axis (not off-set in any way), and 2) it actually IS the BEST LMG of WW1 :love:

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Veritable" (Mar 3rd 2018, 10:14pm)


NoctyrneSAGA

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Sunday, March 4th 2018, 1:53am

Hmm, why does it take the Chauchat 1.1s to land 4 shots at 30-50m in single-shot mode?

It can fire at 299+ RPM at min spread, so from a quick calculation, I'd have it at just over 0.6s to get the job done.

Are you waiting for recoil to (unnecessarily) fully reset or something? If so, that can't be the most practical way of going about calculating this.


EDIT: In fact, recoil decrease can't be the limiting factor here; the Parabellum can land 5 shots in 1s according to your methodology.


Logic error where I'm not taking the time spent recovering out of the time spent shooting. In tapfire, this results in huge times as you noticed.

Good catch.



Seems like back when I thought I wasn't accounting for SDEC delay for SMGs, I was in fact already accounting for it.

Fixed.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "NoctyrneSAGA" (Mar 4th 2018, 6:46am)


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Monday, March 5th 2018, 11:44am

Unsurprising to see my two favourites (lMG 08/18 and Chauchat), which are primarily CQC powerhouses, are actually topping the charts beyond 50m too.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Shalan" (Mar 5th 2018, 1:47pm)


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Tuesday, March 6th 2018, 4:25am

I really hope to see the TTKs up til 80 or 100m. That would really show the differentiation between LMGs. So far your chart is showing that there is no point using any other LMG except the BAR storm, up til the point where you cannot control the vertical recoil, which is pretty heavy TBH.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "sid_tai" (Mar 6th 2018, 4:34am)


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Tuesday, March 6th 2018, 6:25am

So far your chart is showing that there is no point using any other LMG except the BAR storm, up til the point where you cannot control the vertical recoil, which is pretty heavy TBH.


That's certainly what a large chunk of the community seems to think. :pinch:
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Wednesday, March 7th 2018, 12:38am

where you cannot control the vertical recoil, which is pretty heavy TBH.
Well, controlling the Vrec alone is not a problem, but in combination with heavy Hrec - it's a little difficult, yeah.
Sorry for my bad english - it's not my native language and I have difficulties with acquiring speaking/writing practice in my country. If I accidently insult you or say something wrong - I'm sorry, you can feel free to correct me.

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Wednesday, March 7th 2018, 10:19am

where you cannot control the vertical recoil, which is pretty heavy TBH.
Well, controlling the Vrec alone is not a problem, but in combination with heavy Hrec - it's a little difficult, yeah.

Yep, controlling Vrec per se is not really a problem, but controlling Vrec with a low magnification (for higher sens), AND seeing a small sized target (from low magnification), AND tracking them correctly, AND through the muzzle flash, all those add up.