Got some thoughts on your project.

(1) Mp18 experimental could have consistent bursts without a break. For example, a consistent 2 bursts 3 round equals to a 6 round burst, and if target dies at 4th round it will reduce TTK to 4 rounds, just like what you have fixed.

This will greatly improve TTK of Mp18 experimental in closer range.

(2) Assuming target has 100 health and use BTK to calculate TTK causes some wired TTK gap in the chart. For example, in the case of Automatico Factory 6 round burst at 30m, the color of cell is deeper than cells around it.

It is because the BTK at this range is 13, just one more bullet than 2 bursts 6 round, the TTK suffers waiting the 2nd break time and then last bullet finish the target. The problem is this requires perfect aim, and for practical game,

player may miss some rounds statistically, don't know how many exactly, but this will postpone this TTK gap further, to 14 BTK, 15 BTK and so on, depends on player, and vague this gap at 6 round burst.

This gap only exist for the player who has perfect aim.

This one can be fixed by adding a classic effective DPS chart, simply, one burst effective damage divided by the time of one burst one break. It's irrelevant to target's health and player's aim.

Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

Quoted from "sid_tai"

@NoctyrneSAGA from your graphs, the Ribeyrolles is only viable in magdump <=40m and 3RB in 50m. And beyond that TTK will be so long that it becomes unviable. Don't you think maybe the FSSM and SIPS and damage is not optimal? Maybe lower FSSM, more SIPS, higher min damage?

Also, sadly the TTK patch looks like a drop in the ocean in terms of bringing TTK back to a level that contributes to interesting gunplay, from the graphs.

Two 4 round bursts is faster than 3 round bursts at 50m actually.

It's still the fastest killer at that range for an SMG.

The new minimum damage is a 6 BTK and remember that this is off bipod.

If you deploy the bipod, your hitrate could easily achieve 100%.





I personally don't think this ~1s TTK is a problem since 50m is already well past where SMGs should be.

That's SLR and LMG territory you are starting to wander into.

Yes it was 4RB, I mis-read the row number.

I just think at 50m it would be more appropriate for LMGs and SLRs to have 0.5-0.6s TTK, carbines 0.7-0.8s, and ~0.9s for SMGs, and 1-1.1s for Hellriegel, Automatico and MP12. This would still preserve the LMG/SLR superiority but still give a fighting chance for other weapons.

Well done.

The Ribeyrolles will surely rise in popularity now. Wouldn't replace the MP18 in reactionary situations for me at least, though as you stated in the previous post, the effects of 'Trench' variants aren't measured here. Being able to strafe and hipfire whilst sliding with an improved damage model makes the MP18 Trench a delightful option :]. The same could potentially be said for the Automatico Trench.

Perhaps if the Ribeyrolles becomes too problematic in breaking its intended range bracket (SMG), perhaps dropping its 4BTK <12m would be an extreme way of doing it.

Wouldn't mind the Automatico having a reduction in HREC now since it isn't really the dominant reactionary SMG <15m (ish) anymore.

The M1912 is fantastic but is hampered by an awkward reload mechanic, something which will surely put most people off from using it.

SMG08 is also pretty interesting now. Very easy to head shot with too, and it is nice that it can theoretically defeat a hellriegel post 20m with ease.

Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

Quoted from "VincentNZ"

would agree with BU. Reverting to a BF4ish gunplay model just shows how flawed the design concept was at release and still is. Bowing to number junkies and overcomplicating systems because spreadsheets call it balance does not translate to fun gameplay or a professionalized one.

It's not a reversion to BF4 though? All the spread numbers are almost completely the same as before and the only weapon that saw substantial changes was the P16 going from BF4 style to BF1 style.

Far from a reversion there.

Really what we saw was a move from matching BF4's BTK to matching its TTK which is the correct approach given the huge fire rate disparity.

Oh yeah, my answer to your thread was more a general rant about BF1's state in reference of a blog post I saw, maybe in December, where they said they wanted to come closer again to BF4. Sorry if I came off a bit off-topic. Just from reading the spreadsheet though I would assume though that things are slowly moving into the general direction of BF4, not by stats, but by how it plays out.

You are right though, that the ROF /magsize differences and automatic weapons not being the standard make slight different approaches a necessity, although the BF4-style SMGs and DMRs would have worked well, too. It is the LMGs with a high mag capacity and automatic firepower paired with comparable ROF and a higher damage output that need change from BF4.

Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

Played postpatch.

Have not died to Hellriegel yet.

Using the P16 for bunkerclearing and Ribeyrolles outside of that.



P16 is not capable of 30m+ engagements anymore and there is actually a little bit of kick to its recoil now.

Ribeyrolles with a bipod is lol, No surprises there.



So far most deaths have been to MP18.

My thoughts post-patch, after spending a few hours with each gun (except MP1916 because it's that awful.)

-MP1916 is completely useless. Too much recoil and spread, and the reload remains slow. It was actually fun to use prior to the patch and performed OK if you were tactical with reloads - and now it will never be seen again.
-Automatico Storm is the only useful variant since it has lowest recoil. It's fair but effective range is lower than most others. The other variations have too much kick for reasonable use.
-Hellreigel is still common to see and it's still useful, but the Defensive variation is just a suicide-pill, though not as severe one as the MP1916.
-MP18 feels great. Not much more to be said. Haven't tried the burst-round Experimental variation.
-Ribeyrolles is excellent, and has great range, but isn't quite as reliable as some of the others in close quarters, and also has a smaller magazine and high recoil. It's got fair trade-offs.
-SMG08/18 is decent, takes some getting used to, but it can be very effective, and it's lots of fun. Doomp doomp doomp!
-Mauser Carbine is great, very reliable and fun.
I know these aren't technically part of the discussion, but forget about Shotguns. Basically everything except for them got a TTK buff, and they just got a reliability change - they are completely useless now. Not that they were great before.

Would really like to see a reversion of the changes to MP1916, and maybe a recoil reduction on the Automatico. There wasn't too much point in "nerfing" these when all the others were getting a buff - it has instead flipped the tables on which weapons are good, and that's not proper balance.

Well, the MP1916 seems to have gotten increased horizontal recoil as well, not just vertical, so control isn't entirely useful. And I still do have trouble controlling it; due to the increased 1st-shot recoil multiplier, bursts are useless.
Worst of all is if you catch a bit of suppression - suddenly recoil goes through the roof, feels like more than the AT Rocket Gun. Completely loathe the weapon now.

I might manage a 2.0 KDR with any other SMG, and formerly was able to do that with MP1916, but now whenever I pick it I can't even break even.