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NoctyrneSAGA

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21

Monday, May 1st 2017, 9:07pm

A Bipod doesn't really make sense on an SMG. Requiring the Hellriegel to be bipodded to fire pretty much contradicts how SMGs as a class are designed and what the Assault class is meant for.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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22

Monday, May 1st 2017, 9:29pm

A bipod makes the most sense on an SMG if you ask me (purely from a gameplay perspective of course). Look at the Huot LW for instance, what's the point of bipoding when you have horizontal recoil of 0.08 (!!!) to each side? Now compare that to a weapon that can't hit shit outside 15 meters. Which of them *needs* a bipod to be more effective at range?

The gun does pretty well un-bipoded in its effective range, which is CQB. The bipod makes it way more effective than each variant of the MP 18, which was supposed to be the king of the mid range until the Ribeyrolles came along.

This is me using the Defensive against opponents at range.Notice how the unenlightened Assault beside me has to use the AT rocket gun (because of his limited effective range) against enemies I'm comfortably melting?

The bipod is EVERYTHING.

NoctyrneSAGA

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23

Monday, May 1st 2017, 9:55pm

In your video you are bipodding against enemies that are probably 30-40m away. That is not very impressive.

The Defensive takes a CQB SMG and gives it a package that does not help it very much. This applies for Bipods in general which force the player to remain stationary. And this attachment has been placed on weapons designed for movement.

If you want a Bipod SMG so much the Ribeyrolles does a better job than the Hellriegel ever will. The big magazine is only good for making up for all the shots this thing misses.

It has less than half the hRecoil, faster ADS speed, faster muzzle velocity, and better minSpread for just 100 less RPM. This is an SMG that can actually work at range unlike the Defensive.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

VincentNZ

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24

Monday, May 1st 2017, 9:55pm

I would agree with Oba here, if a weapon is rather underwhelming beyond a certain distance a bipod might help a bit with that to make it feasible. Also the Hellriegel can then make an advantage out of that obscene amount of bullets. SMGs also tend to have a higher ROF so can deal their lower damage faster. One has to take the lower velocity into account though.

It will not turn the Hellriegel or Ribeyrolles into a full-auto sniper, but it does make if a bit more usable at other ranges than point blank.

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25

Monday, May 1st 2017, 10:43pm

In your video you are bipodding against enemies that are probably 30-40m away. That is not very impressive.
Do you regularly get kills at those ranges with an SMG? If you do then GG.

Quoted

The Defensive takes a CQB SMG and gives it a package that does not help it very much. This applies for Bipods in general which force the player to remain stationary. And this attachment has been placed on weapons designed for movement.
I don't think anyone expects a bipod to improve CQB performance.

Quoted

If you want a Bipod SMG so much the Ribeyrolles does a better job than the Hellriegel ever will. The big magazine is only good for making up for all the shots this thing misses.

It has less than half the hRecoil, faster ADS speed, faster muzzle velocity, and better minSpread for just 100 less RPM. This is an SMG that can actually work at range unlike the Defensive.
The Ribeyrolles does offer better ranged performance, but the Defensive offers better CQB performance and due to the nature of the bipod, quite competent ranged performance as well. You provided evidence as to why the Ribey is better at range, which I agree with, but you failed to provide any evidence as to why the Hellriegel 'can't work at range'.

Vincent gets my point exactly.

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26

Monday, May 1st 2017, 10:48pm

Here are the bipod modifiers: 0.2x V-recoil, 0.25x H-recoil, 0.3125x ADS/ hip spread increase, 0.625x ADS/ hip spread decrease, and 0.5x min/ max hip spread. Using the default Defensive stats we multiply the existing values by the above modifiers to get the resulting bipoded stats:

0.08 V-recoil
0.118 H-recoil
0.014 ADS/ hip spread increase (0.07 first shot spread)
1.7 ADS/ hip spread decrease
0.75 hip min spread
1.25 hip max spread

Those are some pretty good numbers.

But when TTK is observed, there are other weapons outside of Assault and out of Assault's intended range that kill much quicker, namely pretty much any SLR. At it's 6th bullet, 23m TTK you got at least 532ms, the 7th bullet, 31m at a minimum 635ms, and the 8th bullet, 39m TTK you're facing 749ms. This doesn't include body part multipliers which can and will extend those base TTKs even further. Plus when bipoded your head becomes an easy target especially when prone, so opponents of equal skill to you will take you out with relative ease provided they see you.

There is something to be said about the element of surprise though, not necessarily because players aren't expecting a lazer stream of bullets but because it's kinda hard to distinguish prone players on brown, grey, or any neutral colored ground. Plus, you don't expect prone players which can throw your aim off long enough for the guy with the Defensive to get the jump on the engagement.

In conclusion, the Hellriegel Defensive bipoded has superior stats to any other SMG (not including Ribeyrolles "Factory" (Carbine)) outside of close range, but an attentive player with a good mid range gun will most certainly outplay the Defensive. So long as clueless idiots play FPSs though, the Defensive can be perceived as "Bestgun." :P
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho

This post has been edited 4 times, last edit by "JSLICE20" (May 1st 2017, 11:19pm)


This post by "JSLICE20" (Monday, May 1st 2017, 11:11pm) has been deleted by the author himself (Monday, May 1st 2017, 11:13pm)

Miffyli

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28

Monday, May 1st 2017, 11:14pm

Unrelated,

@Miffyli

Something is weird about the Ribeyrolles stats. The Weapon page lists the base ADS spread stationary at 0.18 and base ADS spread moving at 0.57 whereas the Spring Patch files in the Data Browser is still 0.24 and 0.76, respectively. Is this a ninja change on DICE's behalf?


Did you count in integrated attachments and possible "GunswayModifiers"? Those can have an effect on final stats shown on Symthic.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

NoctyrneSAGA

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29

Monday, May 1st 2017, 11:14pm

@oba

The Hellriegel won't work because a better alternative exists. You are deliberately choosing an inferior ranged option.

As for CQB, you are picking a weapon that has nearly the same accuracy as the Automatico but 2/3 the damage output.

In other words it sucks at both CQB and ranged given that you have better alternatives for both.

As for what Vincent is saying, he is essentially advocating for the packages to break the design of weapons by mitigating their engineered weakness.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

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30

Monday, May 1st 2017, 11:22pm

Did you count in integrated attachments and possible "GunswayModifiers"? Those can have an effect on final stats shown on Symthic.

I don't know what you're talking about. :whistling: Post was deleted before you responded. :D

Anyway, the Ribeyrolles now has the proper ADS spread stationary and moving modifier in the form of the Heavy Barrel. Before, in the They Shall not Pass update, the Heavy Barrel 0.75x modifier to ADS spread stationary and moving was in the game files but not applied to the Ribeyrolles in-game (or at least on Symthic's Weapon page).

Now it has 0.18 and 0.57 ADS spread stationary and moving instead of 0.24 and 0.76.

Ribeyrolles Bestgun.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "JSLICE20" (May 1st 2017, 11:40pm)