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NoctyrneSAGA

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21

Wednesday, March 15th 2017, 1:34am

that 26 seconds of combined small arms fire against a plane to destroy it is acceptable.


Considering that LMGs are perfectly capable of inflicting more or less 20% to a Bomber, a single squad landing all their shots is sufficient.

For Attack Planes and Fighters where it is actually not hard to deal 25% to 30%, the number of people simultaneously shooting decreases.

I don't think there's a problem with damage output, just that players are not willing to try and land it.

Wrenching and teamwork is what should be inflating a tank's HP against AT, not a simple button press every 30 seconds


Wrenching is simply pressing a button.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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22

Wednesday, March 15th 2017, 1:44am


Oh yeah, I want to add one more thing that DICE completely disregarded the community on. Auto-replenishing grenades. This is what I was talking about when it comes to DICE, 1 step forward and 1 step backwards.
What is the point of the CTE if they're going to put out changes and completely ignore valid criticism on? Is it just early access for PC Premium users?


Quoted

Considering that LMGs are perfectly capable of inflicting more or less 20% to a Bomber, a single squad landing all their shots is sufficient.
For Attack Planes and Fighters where it is actually not hard to deal 25% to 30%, the number of people simultaneously shooting decreases.

I don't think there's a problem with damage output, just that players are not willing to try and land it.



What people constantly put down in theory never works out in reality. Why do you think nobody is willing to shoot at a plane in the first place, when it was braindead obvious in BF4 for one Little Bird or Attack Helo victim to equip a Stinger/IGLA? That chopper pilots HAD to address by either blowing flares and killing the MANPAD user, or evading them?


Wrenching is simply pressing a button.
This reply is so obnoxiously and purposely obtuse, that I really should be ignoring it. But I'm going to quote and reply to it seriously to highlight how stupid it is.

Emergency Repair doesn't require a 2nd person outside the tank, putting his life on the line to ensure his tank buddy's survivability. That's teamwork.

NoctyrneSAGA

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23

Wednesday, March 15th 2017, 1:51am

Auto-replenishing grenades. This is what I was talking about when it comes to DICE, 1 step forward and 1 step backwards.


Because it totally makes sense to immediately make changes before they are finished collecting feedback or iterating over the design.

Emergency Repair doesn't require a 2nd person outside the tank, putting his life on the line to ensure his tank buddy's survivability. That's teamwork.

scout helis in particular have much greater freedom, able to repair on the move ( thanks to some poor sod or two pressing Mouse1 all game and otherwise not interacting with the game )


The teamwork of Battlefield should be more about getting players to participate meaningfully in the game than sitting holding LMB down forever over their teammate.

Leave that to a macro or a bot. Such braindead behavior is best suited to an AI instead of a player.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

VincentNZ

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24

Wednesday, March 15th 2017, 2:07am

I fully understand the reasoning behind auto-replenishment of grenades, but I am not convinced that it is a better system than before. So there was spam before? For me this is a sole playercount and map design issue. If you had this system in BF4, how would Locker and Metro change? Barely, 64 players with a reg of 30 second of grenades fighting over three flags in one long corridor is bound to end in spam.

Furthermore I find myself throwing more grenades now than before, since my light anti-tank grenade is readily available soon. It devalues the support class partly in my book. For example I had one rather epic Battlefield moment, where me and my mate took out a heavy tank by ourselves with me being a medic with the light AT grenade and him as suport with the crossbow. Still took us a minute, but not really doable now thanks to the change. Now you basically need assaults to deal with tanks, while before some odd combinations could work well.

So as a conclusion I daresay that everybody now throws grenades at their leisure, which before only supports did, so in the end the amount of thrown grenades is the same. Further, support is now more about giving bullets than meaningful tactical gadgets.

On the topic of the wrench. In my playtime I've been repaired by a blueberry once, and have seen a guy repair somebody else once more. I think it is safe to say that the wrench plays much less of a role than ever before, which is a degradation of teamwork. The game needs these poor bastards that throw themselves in the line to keep assets alive. It is dull, unrewarding and unfair, but these are the heroes of battlefield, and should be respected and encouraged not discarded like in BF1, since they do perform a meaningful job.

NoctyrneSAGA

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25

Wednesday, March 15th 2017, 2:13am

me being a medic with the light AT grenade and him as suport with the crossbow. Still took us a minute, but not really doable now thanks to the change. Now you basically need assaults to deal with tanks, while before some odd combinations could work well.


So basically you were able to win because of the ability of Support to enable nadespam.

Speaking of which, the odd combinations still works, just not necessarily with the Light AT Nade.

Medic Rifle Nade spam hasn't been addressed yet and Support still instantly resupplies all of it.

Hopefully DICE fixes that next.

So as a conclusion I daresay that everybody now throws grenades at their leisure, which before only supports did, so in the end the amount of thrown grenades is the same.


Maybe because DICE wants you to actually be able to throw grenades instead of having situations like in the Battlefield Friends video they had linked?

Darktan has gone over this before. Having to camp a box with long resupply times just functionally makes resupply impossible.

The new system is more flexible and consistent.

The game needs these poor bastards that throw themselves in the line to keep assets alive. It is dull, unrewarding and unfair, but these are the heroes of battlefield, and should be respected and encouraged not discarded like in BF1, since they do perform a meaningful job.


The result of healing assets is not bad.

The way it is delivered is.

Healing assets does not need to be boring like it is now.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

VincentNZ

Holy War? No Thanks.

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26

Wednesday, March 15th 2017, 2:33am

Oh yeah I rezzed my mate twice as well. Very satisfying encounter that one.

I would not call it nadespam, because we needed to back-up after each one to resupply, maybe I did throw a grenaded once every 15-20 seconds, missed one as well. I do not see a big difference though, between the pouch resupplying one rifle grenade every 3 or 4 seconds or all of them at once, you still have a downtime. At least not in my scenario.

Well no shit the BF4 situation was stupid, which was DICE's answer to a problem that only existed in two maps in once playercount, which was taken care of anyway by custom server options. So they replaced a shitty and unneeded mechanic with a controversial one, which is still a fix to an overestimated problem, that is caused by player count and map design. So this is a band-aid on a wound and not a cure of the sickness. If you can call this sickness at all.

As for repping, it is so meaningful that it needs to be discouraging. That is why I never really saw an issue with the Scout wrench monkeys. If you make it fun and meaningful you are bound to overpower it.

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27

Wednesday, March 15th 2017, 2:40am

Because it totally makes sense to immediately make changes before they are finished collecting feedback or iterating over the design.

Which again begs the question: what is the point of the BF1 CTE?


Quoted

What is the CTE?
The CTE stands for Community Test Environment - and it is a tool for us (DICE) to test, develop and communicate with you players before features, improvements and content gets released in the main game!


What is the point of communicating about features, improvements, and content if it's basically ignored and pushed into Live? They've had 2-3 weeks and tons of Reddit threads with feedback, and yet it's somehow not enough to even warrant a an official response?

Quoted

The teamwork of Battlefield should be more about getting players to participate meaningfully in the game than sitting holding LMB down forever over their teammate.
Leave that to a macro or a bot. Such braindead behavior is best suited to an AI instead of a player.


I don't buy this argument at all. Repair Supports often get to be gunners on said tank, and even vacate it to assist in taking out hostile infantry. Any AT pointing their gadgets at a tank is at an inherent disadvantage when someone with a gun is out on foot hunting them; it's been true in previous BF titles, and it's never been more true than in BF1. E
ven Little Bird Repairasites could equip launchers that allow them to harass tanks, and use frag round semi-auto shotguns to kill infantry.


You may not like repairing in BF games, but it is a far better alternative than giving drivers stronger tools for increased self-sufficiency until DICE is creative to come up with something else

NoctyrneSAGA

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28

Wednesday, March 15th 2017, 2:42am

They've had 2-3 weeks and tons of Reddit threads with feedback, and yet it's somehow not enough to even warrant a an official response?


It takes 2 weeks to certify a patch. So no, there's no way they can suddenly make a change like that so soon.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

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29

Wednesday, March 15th 2017, 2:42am

What is the point of communicating about features, improvements, and content if it's basically ignored and pushed into Live?

so that they can fix it on the next patch, which is the reason for some things like nerfs being reverted to buffs or mechanics first being implemented and then removed again.
"I'm just a loot whore."


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bf4
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30

Wednesday, March 15th 2017, 2:45am

Oh yeah I rezzed my mate twice as well. Very satisfying encounter that one.

I would not call it nadespam, because we needed to back-up after each one to resupply, maybe I did throw a grenaded once every 15-20 seconds, missed one as well. I do not see a big difference though, between the pouch resupplying one rifle grenade every 3 or 4 seconds or all of them at once, you still have a downtime. At least not in my scenario.

Well no shit the BF4 situation was stupid, which was DICE's answer to a problem that only existed in two maps in once playercount, which was taken care of anyway by custom server options. So they replaced a shitty and unneeded mechanic with a controversial one, which is still a fix to an overestimated problem, that is caused by player count and map design. So this is a band-aid on a wound and not a cure of the sickness. If you can call this sickness at all.

As for repping, it is so meaningful that it needs to be discouraging. That is why I never really saw an issue with the Scout wrench monkeys. If you make it fun and meaningful you are bound to overpower it.
The problem with little-bird repping is several fold:

1) You did it from the inside so you were stacking rep points on top of all of the driver assists. If you've got a shit hot pilot your overall SPM is pretty amazing. This is contrast to a tank repair guy who loses his assist points every time he has to get out and repair. Which is constantly.

2) Because the repping is internal you can also spam explosives/launchers in between reps. If your pilot has the resupply you've got an infinite rocket spam. So you can get kills/do damage on top of all the assisting and reps.

3) it's relatively safe/reliable. You aren't almost static and thus subject to all of the easy small arms and HE kills that vehicle reppers are.

So the little bird is a unique situation - by contrast tank repair guys need way more incentive because repairing is a low SPM activity that is also relatively risky. On top of all that they don't have access to a really strong farming weapon that could make up for it like they did in BF3/BF4.