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Posts: 1,888

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: Jan 12th 2014

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91

Friday, March 17th 2017, 6:48am

The weapon I have the third-most kills with is the frag grenade, with 96.6% accuracy. It's extremely effective, especially given the tight quarters of many of the maps in this game. Battlefield 3 and 4 by comparison only really had tight spots in select maps, like Metro and Locker, but in most more open maps, like Caspian Border, Operation Firestorm, Siege of Shanghai, Zavod 311, etc., the indoor or tight areas were generally more spacious.

Battlefield 1 maps consist of a lot of trenches, small houses, and bunker. The buildings in this game are much more claustrophobic than in previous games, and the trenches are naturally dangerous places for explosives. Enemies in the trench? Throw a grenade down there and you're assured some damage, if not some kills. Escaping the blast isn't very possible, because the fuses on grenades are so quick that you can't really react to it. Enemies holed up in one of those small bunkers on maps such as Verdun Heights, Argonne, or Monte Grappa? Frag grenade, easy kills. Enemies occupying a room in a building in St. Quentin Scar or Amiens? They won't be ready for a grenade coming through the door or window. In those latter two scenarios, because the rooms are so small, they'll land close enough to the enemy to ensure a kill, as opposed to the larger rooms in BF3 or BF4.

If you took these grenades and put them in BF3 or 4, I don't think they'd be as much of an issue. But as I've said before when talking about LMG's, it's important to consider map design. Gameplay is just as defined by the environment as it is by the weapon stats. And as it stands, the maps' compact areas are tight enough that explosives are much more effective than in previous games.

The speed at which you throw grenades is also pretty ridiculous. Many times when I know I'm about to die, I chuck a grenade at the enemy just beforehand, and that accounts for a significant fraction of my grenade kills. The enemy is typically weakened, moving slowly because they're shooting, and unable to react to the grenade in time to escape the blast. It's basically the Martyrdom perk, but manual. This is especially prevalent when I play Medic with the Autoloading Factory or Marksman, as sometimes I'll get two shots on an enemy but miss the other three, and instead of reloading or switching to my sidearm, flicking a grenade is more effective and reliable.

Not to mention that grenades move much faster than they did in previous games. They whip through the air faster than the softball lobs in BF3/4. There's little time to see them coming and run away.

It's all easy, free damage at least, and an easy kill or more at best. And I think all the problems I listed above contribute more to why grenades are so effective, rather than their replenish rate/form.

However, the change means that there's far less consequence to expend grenades. You can throw one and know that you're guaranteed another no matter what you do. Sure, it's still a short-term inconvenience because you might use it at the wrong time and find yourself needing one shortly thereafter, but beforehand that issue was long-term. The grenade you used a minute ago could've saved your life in the present, but now you have one regardless of there being an ammo crate, so a short to long-term problem is not simply a short-term one. Less discretion is required, and thus, spamming a grenade isn't as punished as it was before.

Though the change to having grenades globally replenish without an ammo crate means that the Support class has been indirectly nerfed. The ammo crate is no longer necessary to replenish one of the game's most effective killing tools, so now the significance of the class has been reduced, because no matter what, you're always going to get a grenade back. Sure, replenishing a grenade three times faster can be helpful, but it's no longer necessary.

How that change will affect gameplay as the weeks go on and people adapt, we can only wait and see. It's too early to say at this point.
Accuracy with AOE weapons and pellet weapons is meaningless. I routinely finish pure tanking rounds with well over 100% accuracy because of multihits. If you wing 5 guys (injure, not kill) you can miss your 4 next tosses and still keep 100% from the perspective of the game.

I have 100% acc on basically all the shotguns because of multihit, >50% on all the grenades.

NoctyrneSAGA

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92

Friday, March 17th 2017, 7:00am

Are AoEs somehow not allowed to have high accuracy?
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Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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93

Friday, March 17th 2017, 7:04am

Are AoEs somehow not allowed to have high accuracy?
Their accuracy is actually irrelevant because of how accuracy is defined. If we defined it as how many firings dealt damage regardless of the number of hits it scores you would see that the accuracy is actually low and thus grenades were not a guaranteed source of damage every toss.

NoctyrneSAGA

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94

Friday, March 17th 2017, 7:08am

Their accuracy is actually irrelevant


Ever since Suppression was added accuracy became irrelevant.

A quick fix is for Suppression hits to count towards accuracy.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

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: Jul 28th 2014

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95

Friday, March 17th 2017, 9:00am

Accuracy with AOE weapons and pellet weapons is meaningless. I routinely finish pure tanking rounds with well over 100% accuracy because of multihits. If you wing 5 guys (injure, not kill) you can miss your 4 next tosses and still keep 100% from the perspective of the game.

I have 100% acc on basically all the shotguns because of multihit, >50% on all the grenades.

I know that, but I still consider it a representation of how effective grenades are, because even if it doesn't mean 97% of grenades thrown get a hit, it means that other times there's enough multiple hits or kills to outweigh it.

Ever since Suppression was added accuracy became irrelevant.

A quick fix is for Suppression hits to count towards accuracy.

Don't forget destructible environments. Blowing up a wall or window doesn't count towards accuracy. I always have to shoot off little wooden flaps on the windows of the barn so that I can see outside, but the game will count against the accuracy stat.

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96

Friday, March 17th 2017, 9:47am

Their accuracy is actually irrelevant


Ever since Suppression was added accuracy became irrelevant.

A quick fix is for Suppression hits to count towards accuracy.
Disagree, while suppression is great when you can't hit. Actually hitting reliably is greater. Suppression doesn't win fights directly, it only prolongs them or lets you maneuver for position.

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97

Friday, March 17th 2017, 9:55am

Accuracy with AOE weapons and pellet weapons is meaningless. I routinely finish pure tanking rounds with well over 100% accuracy because of multihits. If you wing 5 guys (injure, not kill) you can miss your 4 next tosses and still keep 100% from the perspective of the game.

I have 100% acc on basically all the shotguns because of multihit, >50% on all the grenades.

I know that, but I still consider it a representation of how effective grenades are, because even if it doesn't mean 97% of grenades thrown get a hit, it means that other times there's enough multiple hits or kills to outweigh it.

Ever since Suppression was added accuracy became irrelevant.

A quick fix is for Suppression hits to count towards accuracy.

Don't forget destructible environments. Blowing up a wall or window doesn't count towards accuracy. I always have to shoot off little wooden flaps on the windows of the barn so that I can see outside, but the game will count against the accuracy stat.
Well I think you'd be wrong then. Accuracy of AOE is a matter of accounting shenanigans not a measure of effectiveness.

The entire purpose of AOE is that it can easily hit a target with only relative aim. That is, if AOE doesn't have high accounted accuracy it is actually shitty and not doing it's job because it is either too hard to deliver with sufficient accuracy or it's AOE volume is too small given the accuracy of the weapon.

In short, if it doesn't have a decent AOE relative to it's difficulty in aiming its bad. For eg if something has gun like ballistics (XM25, rocket darts from 2142) it cannot have a tremendous AOE nor damage output per hit because it would be a GG cannon (USAS12 frag!). A grenade should have more generous volume and damage output because it is somewhat harder to place, especially at range.

This is called balance.

The big problem is really just that people want to play counterstrike maps or R6 maps, but want BF1 mechanics. Well.......Pick one.