Welcome to symthic forums! We would love if you'd register!
You don't have to be expert in bit baking, everyone is more than welcome to join our community.

You are not logged in.

In protest of misleading weapon animations

Hey! If this is your first visit on symthic.com, also check out our weapon damage charts.
Currently we have charts for Battlefield 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, Medal of Honor: Warfighter and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

Holy War? No Thanks.

Posts: 2,795

Date of registration
: Jul 25th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 16

Thursday, January 26th 2017, 9:12am

Geez we are again arguing over semantics here...

It is a sight misalignment so who cares about what best to call it, as long as you can profoundly describe it.

It is a stupid mechanic and I think it is a bug or an undesired mechanic that comes with gun design, because it is inconsistent across the weapons and sights. If it is a feature it is blood stupid, because it affects the sight, but not the aimpoint. Again sight and weapon are totally disconnected from one another, therefore it needs to go.
I would kind of understand if it would only happen on the RDS, because you can not see the barrel there and the optics would always be an upgrade to your accuracy, but it is just as present on the iron sights although it only moves sideways there. They removed it for good reason in BF4, and I recall reading that it is a tedious task which makes me believe even more that it is an undesired mechanic. I guess that you have to remove it from every weapon individually, otherwise there is no explanation for keeping this stuff in.

Well, but let us first define the name of that phenomenon before we can continue an educuated discussion. Any proposals? We need to speak as one here?

Posts: 3,292

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

Reputation modifier: 15

Thursday, January 26th 2017, 9:27am

Quoted from "VincentNZ"

Well, but let us first define the name of that phenomenon before we can continue an educuated discussion. Any proposals? We need to speak as one here?

Strafing Springiness.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38

AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
AccelerationDamping 4.0
AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
SquaredAcceleration 0.0
MaxAcceleration::Vec2
x 2.0
y 2.0
YawSpeedStrength 1.0
PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
x 1.0
y 1.2
AttractSoftZone 0.75
AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
AttractYawStrength 1.0
AttractPitchStrength 0.34
MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
SnapZoomTime 0.2
SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.2
SnapZoomPostTime 0.2
SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput 0.2
SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2
SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39

AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
AccelerationDamping 4.0
AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
SquaredAcceleration 0.0
MaxAcceleration::Vec2
x 2.0
y 2.0
YawSpeedStrength 1.0
PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
x 1.0
y 1.2
AttractSoftZone 0.0
AttractUserInputMultiplier 1.0
AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0
AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0
AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0
AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
AttractYawStrength 0.0
AttractPitchStrength 0.0
MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
SnapZoomTime 0.2
SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39

 AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
AccelerationDamping 4.0
AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
SquaredAcceleration 0.0
MaxAcceleration::Vec2
x 2.0
y 2.0
YawSpeedStrength 1.0
PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
x 1.0
y 1.2
AttractSoftZone 0.75
AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
AttractYawStrength 1.0
AttractPitchStrength 0.34
MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
SnapZoomTime 0.2
SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

Quoted from "Zer0Cod3x"

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2\$ tho

Data Analyzer

Posts: 7,863

Date of registration
: Dec 16th 2011

Platform: PC

Location: Sweden

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 20

Thursday, January 26th 2017, 10:06am

...the further away the sight is from the center line of the bore the more it will misalign with the point of impact if not held vertical... In that clip every "misaligned" shot was when the rifle was tilted to the left, and the shot impacted to the left of the center almost in between of the scope and center screen... The rest hit where the sight was pointing. So, it actually did shoot where it was pointing... Maybe. Not enough data sample.

The real question is why the gun is so accurate and steady when firing on the move... Dice is being extremely generous.

It would definitely help if the bullet always left the gun in the direction where it was actually pointing like in real life (oh no he didn't)

Quoted

(14:06:57) Riesig: I should stop now. People might get sig material again

Salt Miner

Posts: 3,664

Date of registration
: Mar 19th 2014

Platform: Xbox One

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 16

Thursday, January 26th 2017, 10:12am

Quoted from "Aenonar"

It would definitely help if the bullet always left the gun in the direction where it was actually pointing like in real life (oh no he didn't)

Although I imagine it would be quite complex and is likely a new-game concept, having the projectile spawn relative to your first person weapon model would be amazing. At its core, this is the real culprit behind this issue.
Who Enjoys, Wins

Holy War? No Thanks.

Posts: 2,795

Date of registration
: Jul 25th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 16

Thursday, January 26th 2017, 10:27am

Yeah Aenonar you are right for the RDS and we had this discussion before in BF4 I believe, but the crux really is that the aimpoint (the barrel) does not change, but the animation is there to mimic realism. Although I would say that most inaccuracies when moving does not stem from your weapon being tilted or not held tight enough, but from one's movement and the (over)compensation for it.

As for a mechanic, you should either do it right, or leave it out. Right now it is at the very best a make-do aesthetic just like the visual animation when shooting, which does have a hindering gameplay aspect.

We have enough spread as it is in this game to mimic inaccuracy caused by external sources.

Pinkie

Posts: 7,809

Date of registration
: Feb 25th 2012

Platform: PC

Location: italy

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

Thursday, January 26th 2017, 10:50am

Quoted from "BleedingUranium"

Although I imagine it would be quite complex and is likely a new-game concept, having the projectile spawn relative to your first person weapon model would be amazing. At its core, this is the real culprit behind this issue.

ghost recon, the division, arma, red orchestra and many others already have that.
"I'm just a loot whore."

stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody

bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

Quoted from "CobaltRose"

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100

WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

http://i.imgur.com/4X0321O.gif

Posts: 292

Date of registration
: Dec 2nd 2013

Platform: PC

Location: California

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 10

Thursday, January 26th 2017, 11:06am

Quoted from "BleedingUranium"

they also expressed interest in toning down the Auto-5's massively misaligned firing animation.
Jesus christ, is this why I feel like I never hit anything with that thing?

Wizard moderator

Posts: 1,620

Date of registration
: Jun 28th 2012

Platform: PC

Location: RI, USA

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 14

Thursday, January 26th 2017, 11:19am

Quoted from "Aenonar"

It would definitely help if the bullet always left the gun in the direction where it was actually pointing like in real life (oh no he didn't)

Quoted from "VincentNZ"

Yeah Aenonar you are right for the RDS and we had this discussion before in BF4 I believe, but the crux really is that the aimpoint (the barrel) does not change, but the animation is there to mimic realism. Although I would say that most inaccuracies when moving does not stem from your weapon being tilted or not held tight enough, but from one's movement and the (over)compensation for it.

As for a mechanic, you should either do it right, or leave it out. Right now it is at the very best a make-do aesthetic just like the visual animation when shooting, which does have a hindering gameplay aspect.

We have enough spread as it is in this game to mimic inaccuracy caused by external sources.

I really liked the BF4 CTE "fix". Found a way to keep the weapon animations(which yeah, its not like those are gonna be going anywhere) but still provide the player a correct and pretty much unobstructed aim point. but yeah....iron sights -.-

Having the bullet leave the actual direction the gun is pointing could be done, I mean its not like there is some sorta tech barrier or something. I imagine it hasn't been done or isn't often done for a reason. Yeah it would be more realistic but imagine how inconstant it would make your shots feel as a player? Inconsistencies with 1p vs 3p . another thing a player has a limited control over. I don't think a player needs to have everything 100% in their control but when implementing something that isn't, should be looked at closely. It could easily slip into something that just ends up feeling like its mimicking inaccuracy.

Have you guys ever seen what guns look like while firing and there are no weapon animations that involve sway and movement. It looks BAD. There are a few weapons where it looks like it could use some work. Most the time its much worse then it seems at a glance. Use some sorta maker on the center of the screen. I haven't specifically look over many weapons for it but most seem to keep that front post on point fairly well.

Data Analyzer

Posts: 7,863

Date of registration
: Dec 16th 2011

Platform: PC

Location: Sweden

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 20

Thursday, January 26th 2017, 7:20pm

Players complained when they made tanks shoot through the offset barrel (early BF4? Yes your barrel is sticking into a wall. Of course it hit the wall instead of where you were looking). People freaked out in the patch when the bullets came out from a bit under your eyes (sort of where the barrel would be, also early BF4?) because they couldn't headglitch as well anymore, they kept on hitting the thing they were hiding behind, so they moved the point back up to around the forehead instead.

But they also complain when the bullets don't come from the barrel because of headglitchers and the eternal complaint that the sight and gun is never really lined up, because they're not actually using the gun to shoot.

= Players are never happy...

For some reason it works perfectly fine in many other games where the bullets leave the barrel.. Battlefield players are somehow not as connected to their player model and that it does what you tell it to and is where you put it. Basically the lack of realism in a few critical places make people detached, so the things you are trying to make realistic just doesn't work because the rest isn't realistic enough. So you get these semi-realistic features like visual recoil and running animation on the weapon that doesn't quite work and feel "right".

Quoted

(14:06:57) Riesig: I should stop now. People might get sig material again

Holy War? No Thanks.

Posts: 2,795

Date of registration
: Jul 25th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 16

Thursday, January 26th 2017, 8:20pm

Yeah, I noticed how some other games handle strafing and firing animation and I really cringe whenever I see the optics getting bigger and smaller when you are shooting. BF spends a lot of time trying to make the animations quite right, but these things really put me off.

I do see the point in it for the RDS, because they give such a tremendous accuracy bonus, since the body of the gun is not visible. So they need some kind of nerf, but right now it is awkward and excessive, and extended to ironsights, which is counterproductive and unintuitive.

I do think though, that barrel (aimpoint) and sight should not be misaligned/disconnected, or only in similar ways as it was in BF3 and 4.

1 guests