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NoctyrneSAGA

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261

Saturday, December 31st 2016, 10:20am

Balancing around optimal play will enable skilled player superiority and outright ruin the game for casual folk. The casual player would not be willing to devote so much time and effort to learning a game mechanic. He just want to kill things and have fun. I'm certain casual players comprise the vast majority of people who play Battlefield, even video games in general, so enforcing an overall skill cap of the game would be a detriment to DICE's and EA's business when casuals drop the game because hardcore players consistently dominate them to an even higher degree than they do now.


You are completely misunderstanding terminology and the rationale yet again.

Balancing around optimal play is specifically to prevent high-level players from getting to stomp everyone else. If they are unable to stomp, no one can. These players are of course the best of the best of the best. If they are unable to break something, then by extension the rest of the community cannot.

A high skill ceiling, or what is achievable at the highest level of mastery, does not matter to a casual player. What you are talking about is the SKILL FLOOR or the minimum amount of competence needed to succeed. Casuals are going to do poorly with high skill FLOORS because it requires too much investment to get into. This is also known as a BARRIER TO ENTRY.

Having a skill cap applies solely to high-level players. Casual players ARE NOT going to hit the skill ceiling or skill cap. The only reason they will be turned away is if players that spent their time reaching the skill ceiling, aka high-level players, do achieve it and are dissatisfied with the depth so they inform the casuals to "not bother with the game." This depth can be described as the difference between the skill floor and skill ceiling. It is the high-level players that complain about low skill ceilings, not the casuals.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "NoctyrneSAGA" (Dec 31st 2016, 10:26am)


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262

Saturday, December 31st 2016, 10:33am

Which begs the question: why do we not see more high-level players using the higher skill cap land vehicles available to them?
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


NoctyrneSAGA

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263

Saturday, December 31st 2016, 10:37am

Perhaps because they are still mastering them?

Or maybe they have yet to actually try something else?
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

Posts: 3,257

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264

Saturday, December 31st 2016, 10:39am

They would still have to be using the vehicle to master it.

Hmm, I wonder why they haven't tried out anything else then...
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


Legion

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265

Saturday, December 31st 2016, 10:48am

Because they are currently exploring the A7V and its options. It's fairly standard behaviour towards the beginning of a game's life.
There is the issue that if game elements are buffed up from being underpowered, players tend to ignore them in favour of the tools they are used to. Which is actually quite a nuisance if you try to balance a game as now you don't get any feedback on the changes. That's why new elements are often released as overpowered and then toned down. It's far easier to gain feedback that way.
Bro of Oscar, the gentleman ninja
Rules. Read them, follow them.

Quoted

[22:09:20] Failure117: Legion: Tank Expert and Pokemon Afficianado

[16:21:16] Oscar Perez Lijo: In soviet russia legion is top poster

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266

Saturday, December 31st 2016, 10:58am

There is the issue that if game elements are buffed up from being underpowered, players tend to ignore them in favour of the tools they are used to. Which is actually quite a nuisance if you try to balance a game as now you don't get any feedback on the changes. That's why new elements are often released as overpowered and then toned down. It's far easier to gain feedback that way.

Based on these statements, are you suggesting that the A7V is, indeed, dominant in comparison to its competition?
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


VincentNZ

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: Jul 25th 2013

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267

Saturday, December 31st 2016, 11:09am

Honestly these are all assumptions, fact is only what we see on the battlefield itself and what usage data says. If Battlefield Tracker had data on people using the Howitzer or mortar truck on unranked servers to master it, we might convince some people here.

And I doubt that the usage will change in any way over the next months. Look at the stats for the Flanker, which I greatly oppose, it is an easy way to farm infantry, but even this one does not get a lot of usage. Unless DICE changes the A7, we will mostly see the A7 with the 75% or so usage.

Personally I do not think the Landship has a problem, and we actually do not argue over this here. It needs communication and probably three people to man correctly. I play with friends all the time, and a mate of mine spawns a landship from time to time because it is decent fun for the driver as well as the gunners. But even then sometimes a few just do not want to tank, the spawn spot is not free or maybe some do not want to redeploy to get in. Let alone play repair monkey. So if one of us feels the desire to tank he will spawn the A7, or maybe the Flanker. But none of us would even consider spawning a Mortar Truck, standard FT or even the MAA.
And these loadouts can never be viable and on the battlefield UNLESS DICE turns them into the FOTM by nerfing all other options greatly and buffing this one significantly. In this case we will just see a switch in usage. This can not be desirable either. The only way to even things out and see some vehicles actually get use is to change the spawn system.

Now maybe you guys are actually playing on servers with mostly mates where vehicle spawns are actually considered at all times and the tool needed the most or is most usable will be taken. If this is your actual gameplay experience we can only believe you.

By the way I noticed that, over night, the tone became a bit less hostile. Well done, let's keep standards higher even.

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268

Saturday, December 31st 2016, 11:20am

Personally I do not think the Landship has a problem, and we actually do not argue over this here. It needs communication and probably three people to man correctly.

Would it be possible for DICE to enable a VOIP option in multi-crew vehicles in case one or more of the members is not
a.) a squad member
b.) a friend
c.) communicating

We see that VOIP can be set to "Team" and "Squad," why not "Vehicle Occupants?"

@Legion

I moved tank-related discussion from "Will DICE fix the support" thread to avoid off-topicing.

The placement of this thread wasn't even by an author haha. Miffyli transferred it from a separate thread altogether unaware that the following discussion would have very little to do with the technical aspect of tanks. Awkward...
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.2
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

No Slowdown Data

Source code

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AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 1.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 0.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.0
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0


No Auto Rotation Data

Source code

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 AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "JSLICE20" (Dec 31st 2016, 11:44am)


Legion

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Saturday, December 31st 2016, 11:53am

No, I am not, at least not in ways that matter. It is dominant in usage but that is a leftover from prepatch days. Public players are notoriously slow in adapting to patch changes. Thing is that usage data does not directly correlate to there being a problem.
I stated that the landship used to be underpowered, primarily due to being fairly squishy, and as such did not see much play. It'll take a while for the public to acknowledge it as viable option as people won't use it or insist that it's still bad, leaving it in the "not used" bin.
Now that isn't the case anymore. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if, given enough time, squad support and tank hunter landships started to take over once people realise that a well driven one hard counters A7Vs. In fact, both of those might be too strong right now as, like the pre patch A7V, there is little that can prey on it effectively. The counter list, right now at least, is basically limited to another tank hunter/squad support crewed by better players or aircraft, which is not a good state to be in.

Alas, time will tell. It is far too soon to argue about much of this.

And to give the people here an example of why taking your time is important.
While Blizzard was developing Overwatch, every new wave of beta players complained about a hero named Bastion. Entire teams were shredded apart by them and lots of "Nerf Bastion!" threads were made. The interesting thing here is that Bastion, in the current state of the game, is severely underpowered to the point of often being cited as the worst hero in the game. And no, the hero was not nerfed. It was even buffed on a few occasions. What happened is that as the player base got more experienced with the game and how to play it, the massive flaws of Bastion became apparent and the complaints dropped off to the point where they are nonexistent now.
And Blizzard knew this, as apparent by both comments around release and by not nerfing Bastion, so time proved them right.
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Saturday, December 31st 2016, 9:12pm

Didn't Blizzard also tweet out "Try using Genji" as their answer to the community's demand for a nerf?

Oh look, players didn't know a counter already existed. It just took time for them to find it.

And suddenly, Bastion goes from OP to joke without any nerfs at all.
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With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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