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  • "potetr" started this thread

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Sunday, October 9th 2016, 12:58am

Adding Suppression Confirmation

A lot of actions in Battlefield games give feedback to the player. Dealing damage to infantry or vehicles give hit confirmation in the form of a hit marker, and damage dealt numbers. Spotting enemies plays a sound and places a marker.

Suppression, however, with an as real gameplay effect as the above (Edit: especially now that it affects ammo regen. Edit2: Nevermind, RIP Ammo 2.0, you will be missed), is left out. There is no feedback upon inflicting suppression.

That's unfortunate, because it is perhaps the hardest mechanic to gauge the effectiveness of. You can see your own recoil and spread worsening along with visual effects when suppressed, but you never get any clear feedback on what it takes to reach what level of the debuff. Factor in hidden and varying suppression "damage" models and different multipliers depending on where you hit a 4.4m wide invisible bubble, and we've got a fairly unclear mechanic. Even online itís hard to find info!

Adding some form of feedback would help a lot of players in both understanding and using suppression, which would unlock the teamwork and tactical elements of the mechanic.

Skipping the meaningless concerns, like realism, there is a concern that suppression could then be (ab)used as an info gathering tool.

However, the feedback could be tied to a certain, high, suppression treshold, only showing up when it is reached, and maybe every shot thereafter. The confirmation could be a type of hitmarker, a text prompt, a callout, or whatever the game designers see fit.

Because you give away your position, use ammo, and gain spread (exception: LMGs, but they gain heat), fishing for a suppression confirmation does not sound worthwhile in most situations. In competitive I can imagine the value of checking certain spots would be larger, but then again this is already possible with splash damage weapons, and that is not gamebreaking. Actually, it might add a bit of depth to the game.

Ultimately, I think the issues can be ironed out, or are simply worth it.

Iíd really like to hear thoughts on this.

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Things I support
ammo regen pls

Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

_____

When I play with it [Autoloading 8] I feel like I am batman taking out 1 after 1 baddie while they feel helpless and don't know who is talking out their mates.
Remove 3D spotting. Itís a mechanic that rewards bad eyesight.
Wanna help your team by sneaking through enemy territory to provide spawns? THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK FGT I HOPE YOU RUN OUT OF MOTION BALLS TOO EARLY TO BE SUCCESSFUL
Wanna be Javelin squad but only have two guys? BETTER NOT GET YOUR SOFLAM KILLED FGT THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK WITHOUT A SUPPORT DUDE DROPPING AMMO ON YOU EVERY 2 MINUTES
Please post your best M1916 clips Magazines *fixed*.

Cool/Useful Links

What Makes the Best Player?
David Sirlin on Intuition
Archive - Wait But Why - I recommend the posts on AI, and Neuralink, in that order. They are long, but very interesting. Just skim parts of them.

Symthic Databrowser
Battlefield 1 DeployTimes

DICE pls (Feedback and ideas)

Squadmate Healthbars in the HUD
Minor console QoL improvements
Ping Tool idea
"Wants to talk" tag for squad menu
Adding Suppression Confirmation
Spotting improvements
Why the scoring system should be replaced + Suggestion for a reworked scoring system

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "potetr" (May 15th 2017, 3:37pm)


NoctyrneSAGA

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Sunday, October 9th 2016, 4:15am

Characters do call out "I'm being suppressed" although what threshold is unknown.

Easy scoring event can be added: Suppressing +Amount

Same as the new damage. And of course a maybe special hitmarker, like a transparent/faint one to show that you nearly got a hit, but not quite.
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Sunday, October 9th 2016, 6:18am

How is suppression in BF1? Is it like current BF4 suppression? Or are we back to "But Muh randomness" style suppression from early BF4?

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Sunday, October 9th 2016, 6:24am

I'd like to know how it works as well; I seem to recall a bunch of confusion on this, even once the Beta was out.
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Sunday, October 9th 2016, 10:09am

Characters do call out "I'm being suppressed" although what threshold is unknown.

Easy scoring event can be added: Suppressing +Amount

Same as the new damage. And of course a maybe special hitmarker, like a transparent/faint one to show that you nearly got a hit, but not quite.

aren't there already callouts in bf4 for suppression? i'm fairly sure i heard them...
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Sunday, October 9th 2016, 12:24pm

There is already a Feedback to the player - You need to be precise, for whom you want it to be visible. Points for the Suppression Source is the only way to show it on that end. However, the more important info is on the Suppression Receiver's end.

In BF4 it's a fade in colors on the outside. Granted, that fade does only tell whether suppressed or not, because the nuances in the degree of suppression cant be properly determined by the eye, when there's action going on.

A simple YELLOW overlay on the edge of the screen might be an option (Like the Being-hit-red overlay, but all around the screen and in yellow)

Or a fade from Color to Black/White on the edge of the screen.

A tunnelvision effect would be the most effective, but at the same time the most distractive.

Whatever the best solution is, it must be a visual hint.
still playin' Motorstorm

  • "potetr" started this thread

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Sunday, October 9th 2016, 2:29pm

Characters do call out "I'm being suppressed" although what threshold is unknown.

Easy scoring event can be added: Suppressing +Amount

Same as the new damage. And of course a maybe special hitmarker, like a transparent/faint one to show that you nearly got a hit, but not quite.

aren't there already callouts in bf4 for suppression? i'm fairly sure i heard them...


There are some VOs triggered by shooting at enemies, but like the elusive "I'm being suppressed", they are not nearly consistent enough to rely on.

@ARE5R06
Bf1 has some strong visual suppression effects. Coupled with Bf1's highly visible bullets which lets you easily see your spread, learning the connection between visual effects strength and suppression penalties should be more possible than in bf4.

signature 2.1

Things I support
ammo regen pls

Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

_____

When I play with it [Autoloading 8] I feel like I am batman taking out 1 after 1 baddie while they feel helpless and don't know who is talking out their mates.
Remove 3D spotting. Itís a mechanic that rewards bad eyesight.
Wanna help your team by sneaking through enemy territory to provide spawns? THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK FGT I HOPE YOU RUN OUT OF MOTION BALLS TOO EARLY TO BE SUCCESSFUL
Wanna be Javelin squad but only have two guys? BETTER NOT GET YOUR SOFLAM KILLED FGT THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK WITHOUT A SUPPORT DUDE DROPPING AMMO ON YOU EVERY 2 MINUTES
Please post your best M1916 clips Magazines *fixed*.

Cool/Useful Links

What Makes the Best Player?
David Sirlin on Intuition
Archive - Wait But Why - I recommend the posts on AI, and Neuralink, in that order. They are long, but very interesting. Just skim parts of them.

Symthic Databrowser
Battlefield 1 DeployTimes

DICE pls (Feedback and ideas)

Squadmate Healthbars in the HUD
Minor console QoL improvements
Ping Tool idea
"Wants to talk" tag for squad menu
Adding Suppression Confirmation
Spotting improvements
Why the scoring system should be replaced + Suggestion for a reworked scoring system

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Sunday, October 9th 2016, 5:17pm

Wait, so in that video he doesn't mention deviation being a thing in BF1. Is this true? Is it back to just being scope sway and tunnel vision? I really liked the tunnel vision effect, it actually looked quite useful, particularly for someone trying to flank the suppressed player.

Also, did he say "miniguns" at one point? that doesn't sound right. Did he mean stationary MGs? Given the context that's what it sounded like he meant.

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Monday, October 10th 2016, 1:17pm

@potetr

BF3 had a suppression bonus. Implement that and you got your Suppression confirmation.

The suppression receiver finally has a proper visual feedback.
still playin' Motorstorm

  • "potetr" started this thread

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Monday, October 10th 2016, 11:04pm

@Hau_ruck
Suppression effects are going to be in. No miniguns in Bf1 afaik, he did probably mean MGs, I don't know, didn't listen.

@ARE5R06
Bf4 also had the suppression bonus. The scoring event is tied to the death of whoever receives suppression, and the treshold to earn it seems very low, It conveys very little useful info:(

signature 2.1

Things I support
ammo regen pls

Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

_____

When I play with it [Autoloading 8] I feel like I am batman taking out 1 after 1 baddie while they feel helpless and don't know who is talking out their mates.
Remove 3D spotting. Itís a mechanic that rewards bad eyesight.
Wanna help your team by sneaking through enemy territory to provide spawns? THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK FGT I HOPE YOU RUN OUT OF MOTION BALLS TOO EARLY TO BE SUCCESSFUL
Wanna be Javelin squad but only have two guys? BETTER NOT GET YOUR SOFLAM KILLED FGT THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK WITHOUT A SUPPORT DUDE DROPPING AMMO ON YOU EVERY 2 MINUTES
Please post your best M1916 clips Magazines *fixed*.

Cool/Useful Links

What Makes the Best Player?
David Sirlin on Intuition
Archive - Wait But Why - I recommend the posts on AI, and Neuralink, in that order. They are long, but very interesting. Just skim parts of them.

Symthic Databrowser
Battlefield 1 DeployTimes

DICE pls (Feedback and ideas)

Squadmate Healthbars in the HUD
Minor console QoL improvements
Ping Tool idea
"Wants to talk" tag for squad menu
Adding Suppression Confirmation
Spotting improvements
Why the scoring system should be replaced + Suggestion for a reworked scoring system