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Posts: 7,793

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Platform: PC

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311

Wednesday, March 22nd 2017, 5:11am

I like playing games because the gameplay is fun, and I stop playing the game when the game stops being fun.

The reward is HAVING fun.

huh.
considering for me the fun comes in when i unlock something to use, i guess i have no clue what fun means anymore in a concrete way, and i'm 100% serious.

i guess i probably found "fun" using the crossbow in bf3 or more significantly the m320fb in bf4, but i'm not sure what i felt back then, so i just attribute fun to the unlocking a lot of stuff in a short amount of time, and the further unlocking of stuff if so i wish as the only way to feel a bit of accomplishment as it is paired to that fun, kinda like if someone said "you're good at it so have this cool new toy"(at the same time i would't feel like that if it took me to long because that means i sucked at it and don't find any enjoyement whatsoever in that, which is why i have a hard time playing games like dragon quest or the soul series, that may have certain bosses that are almost unbeatable if you're not good enough, which requires massive amounts of grinding to be beatable for you skill level) , but not really satisfaction... i'm not sure how to put it into real words really, but i guess that that is probably why i don't play games as much as i did in the past.


i also have no clue what "hoop jumping for pats on the back" means really.
"I'm just a loot whore."


stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

link to full-size old avatar:
http://i.imgur.com/4X0321O.gif



This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "iota-09" (Mar 22nd 2017, 5:17am)


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312

Wednesday, March 22nd 2017, 7:06am

I like playing games because the gameplay is fun, and I stop playing the game when the game stops being fun.

The reward is HAVING fun.

huh.
considering for me the fun comes in when i unlock something to use, i guess i have no clue what fun means anymore in a concrete way, and i'm 100% serious.

i guess i probably found "fun" using the crossbow in bf3 or more significantly the m320fb in bf4, but i'm not sure what i felt back then, so i just attribute fun to the unlocking a lot of stuff in a short amount of time, and the further unlocking of stuff if so i wish as the only way to feel a bit of accomplishment as it is paired to that fun, kinda like if someone said "you're good at it so have this cool new toy"(at the same time i would't feel like that if it took me to long because that means i sucked at it and don't find any enjoyement whatsoever in that, which is why i have a hard time playing games like dragon quest or the soul series, that may have certain bosses that are almost unbeatable if you're not good enough, which requires massive amounts of grinding to be beatable for you skill level) , but not really satisfaction... i'm not sure how to put it into real words really, but i guess that that is probably why i don't play games as much as i did in the past.


i also have no clue what "hoop jumping for pats on the back" means really.
Having fun is just a biochemical response to doing an activity. Doing well in games (ie winning matches, getting lots of kills, progressing in terms of game assets, story) is fun for me. IOW I derive pleasure from actually playing the game and winning/performing the best I can. I'm pretty ambivalent about unlocking stuff. I'd rather have all of the options laid out for me at the start but have lots of depth in diversity and situations where all of the stuff is useless.

Most of life is jumping through hoops. You start with good behaviour as a small child and get rewarded with treats. You do well in school and you get various rewards. You impress peers, you get social rewards. You do well at work you get career rewards. All of live is basically grinding unlocks. Humanity is wired for the most part to act on the potential of getting reward.

I don't need to mimic that in a game to have fun.

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313

Wednesday, March 22nd 2017, 7:28am

well after that explanation i'll see myself out, i don't think i can add anything more to the argument of what matters about unlocks/grinding in a game/battlefield if even i don't know why i want precisely unlocks or why i play games anymore.
i guess, i "just do" at this point, for no precise reason.


on another topic though, i had the chance to play some cte today finally, and peope were crying so much about ammo 2.0... but it didn't seem to have much problems to me honestly, it seemed to work as intended, mostly, i wasn't really happy with how the spotting flares handle the new ammo system, but overall it seemed to be fine, so i can't relaly see why people complain so much about it outside of the fact that it is a change and people don't like changes.
"I'm just a loot whore."


stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

link to full-size old avatar:
http://i.imgur.com/4X0321O.gif




Posts: 1,888

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: Jan 12th 2014

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314

Wednesday, March 22nd 2017, 7:50am

well after that explanation i'll see myself out, i don't think i can add anything more to the argument of what matters about unlocks/grinding in a game/battlefield if even i don't know why i want precisely unlocks or why i play games anymore.
i guess, i "just do" at this point, for no precise reason.


on another topic though, i had the chance to play some cte today finally, and peope were crying so much about ammo 2.0... but it didn't seem to have much problems to me honestly, it seemed to work as intended, mostly, i wasn't really happy with how the spotting flares handle the new ammo system, but overall it seemed to be fine, so i can't relaly see why people complain so much about it outside of the fact that it is a change and people don't like changes.
What's ultimately important is that you are having fun, and even more important is that they design a game that provides the most fun to the most number of people who are interested in it and purchase it.

Unlocking content is a pretty old and pervasive mechanic in video games, and it is a totally unique feature to gaming - no other form of entertainment really has locked content. The closest analog is sports where you need physical fitness, and physical aptitute to tackle harder and harder challenges or playing in better leagues, etc. Sport is again real life grinding.

It's worth discussing why games have locked content, and how/when they should do so. It makes obvious sense in RPG-type games, or in sandbox games where stuff is locked to you simply because you don't have resource or the ability to survive there yet.

To me it makes little sense in PVP shooters.

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Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

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315

Wednesday, March 22nd 2017, 8:33am

Quite the contrary for me. For instance, in BF3 I really, really, enjoyed unlocking the Mastery Dog Tags. 1.) I thought they looked cool with the etched designs, 2.) you could showcase your weapon versatility through achieving mastery with under-rated or unused guns, and 3.) it was satisfying to complete the goal itself and having an appealing indication that represented your success made it even easier to track. I know BF4 offered this, but it wasn't something I even payed attention to. All in all BF4 was kind of a let down for me in general, but that's unrelated.

In BF1 there aren't really any in-game rewards that interest me enough to put forth a certain amount of effort to achieve a certain goal like BF3 did (these new Rank 10 variant assignments should suffice, temporarily). I CAN set goals for myself, but reaching that self-goal really doesn't earn me anything in the game itself. As a person who is very visual-oriented, out of sight - out of mind, with a personality that thrives on acknowledgement concerning success I won't get any satisfaction from achieving goals I create for myself unless there's a tangible or visual reward for my actions. However, I'm not one to treat myself to things for being successful at something. I prefer to receive the reward from a 3rd party because it serves as an acknowledgement that others consider something I did worthwhile and beneficial, and not just me who thinks so.

This a positive/ negative character trait of mine; I like to know that what I do is appreciated. Some may call this being a "people pleaser", but what I believe separates me from that identification is that I do, truly, speak/ write what is on my mind and what I actually believe, not just what I think people want to hear/ see.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


Posts: 1,888

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316

Wednesday, March 22nd 2017, 8:40am

Maybe I'm just an asshole, but my idea of fun is going like 80/0 and making people whine/ragequit and frothing at the mouth. Never really cared much for the dog tag flairs, etc. It's the repetitively taking a shell to the face that people tend to notice.

Posts: 3,257

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

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317

Wednesday, March 22nd 2017, 8:48am

I like killing too, don't get me wrong. I have explicitly said before in another thread that besting others in a multiplier setting is what provides enjoyment and what keeps me returning day after day, however another layer of achievement that adds onto that base makes it even better for me, personally. I just haven't experienced the multi-layer fun that BF3 offered which spoiled me because I want that same experience again obviously in an upgraded form.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "JSLICE20" (Mar 22nd 2017, 9:01am)


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318

Wednesday, March 22nd 2017, 9:08am

I like killing too, don't get me wrong. I have explicitly said before in another thread that besting other players in a multiplier setting is what provides enjoyment and what keeps me returning day after day, however another layer of achievement that adds onto that base makes it even better for me, personally. I just haven't experienced the multi-layer fun that BF3 offered which spoiled me because I want that same experience again obviously in an upgraded form.
I really wish they just made BF3 and BF4 one big game. There were aspects of each that I preferred over the other. They each used so many recycled assets and the like, I'm really surprised they didn't just move for full integration if you owned both titles.

I really can't pin my finger on why BF1 feels like a comparative shell of a game. Maybe it's a combination of stuff: a weaker pre-game UI (WTF no battlelog?!), fewer of my friends playing, no truly epic/memorable maps that will stick in my mind as great gameplay experiences. I still remember some epic 1942 and BFV encounters after 10+ years. I don't think anything in BF1 is that memorable. Lack of high speed maneuvering fighting out of vehicles/light vehicles. Snail pace of DLC content in a base game that has a small count of mediocre maps. All this faffing around with new balance systems 6mo into release.

Certainly the rewards/cosmetics aspect is largely irrelevant for me. But yeah, that's missing too. The new ribbons are nice as a source of free points of course, but who cares in a game where points just don't matter past rank 10 anyway? Let me get scraps and spend warbonds on stuff at least.

VincentNZ

Holy War? No Thanks.

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319

Wednesday, March 22nd 2017, 12:37pm

Suggestions to improve BF1 : battlefield_live

These kinds of posts are not uncommon. In fact, they are a regular sight on the Battlefield subreddits.

"Too easy to beat/complete/finish the game"


People here always try to bash Reddit posts, but this one is being taken for real? :D it is deeply exaggerated (500 HS with the MP18 that would be roughly ten kills per headshot meaning 5000 kills equalling 83 hours of playtime with a KPM of 1), of course, but some points are indeed true. BF lacks long-time commitment beyond the basic gameplay. BF1 works as a shooter with an interesting theme and that is it. Indeed nothing is done to incentivize playing more, especially to get the average player more on board, that plays a round every so often. Grind surely is a way to do it, it works on MMOs, but while the average player is eager to grind low level orcs for a specific cosmetic item, locking a new weapon behing a huge timesink is not a smart, when the majority of players play maybe 4-10 hours a week. Weapons are always deemed essential.

So DICE needs to think about something else, the end of round screen is aa good start, but it loads up so slow and still tells you nothing of worth. The scoreboard is nothing more than what the name entails, and the highlighted players often received titles for the most meaningless shit, especially the squad titles are awful. Yes indeed a highlighted squad at the end of round would help, anything that kind of promotes playing together. Praise is always encouraging the players. Also the stupid random battlepacks, why are they not tied to something? Same with soldier/weapon/vehicle skins, boosts, puzzles and everything in this game that could work as a reward? Medals, ribbons, dogtags, codex entries for being the guy with the most revives, resupplies, repairs etc. Instead I am forced about the battlepack luck generator and the custom player emblems that are mostly tits, swastikas, butts, white supremacy emblems, SS runes, guys that kiss their maybe-girlfriend, pics of guys proud of their muscle mass, often all cramped together.
Generally the battlepacks need rework, because you just get one skin for one thing that you might never ever use again and that you hardly see anyway. Upgraded killcards, come into mind as well.

Ah but even more simple things like community building keep people playing the game and keep the enjoyment up. Five months after release we still do not have basic social functions. My clan is DIP and has been since the BFF episode came out, and in BF4 we even had a meaningless clan page on battlelog where we could be looked up. Here we do not even have clan tags, we do not have a way to look at player profiles with meaningful data unless we use a third party program either. Tied to this is the following: Over the course of BF4, I befriended about thirty people I guess, some from here, some from servers I played on, back when community servers were encouraged, and often by people who played with me and wanted to do this more often. Heck I even got recognized from a guy that was reading my posts here and knew me from there, I felt like a star. My total new friends of BF1 are none. And I do not see DICE seeing this as a problem. My only social moment of BF1 so far is when the matchmaking fucked up and put me on an american server, where ChineseToTheBone was playing on. Reminds me that I have not been seeing him on here for weeks.

Just now game developers grasp the context of using their games as a service, for long-term commitment to a franchise. Just having decent gameplay is not good enough anymore. BF4 had good gameplay, it was tailored for my likings as well, but what kept me playing for two years is not the game, but the people that played it. I am ranting a bit here, but aside the gameplay BF1 really has nothing to offer, kind of annoys me that they took 90 from me and failed to deliver anything beyond gameplay.

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: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

Reputation modifier: 15

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Wednesday, March 22nd 2017, 4:49pm

Based on the logic of this thread, I can venture an educated guess on what 2 of the 4 Rank 10 variants' stats will look like excluding the Hellriegel Defensive, because the variant itself is new and without an existing model to go off of, and also the Martini-Henry Sniper because the bipod is the only statistical benefit to this type; the scope is simply a factor of usability (if you can even call it that).

1.) 1906 Sniper:

0.12 ADS min spread

Supported with bipod -

0.19 Vrecoil per shot
0.025 Hrecoil per shot
0.0625 spread increase per shot
1.875 spread decrease
1.25 min hip spread standing
1.75 max hip spread standing
1.00 min hip spread crouched
1.50 max hip spread crouched
0.75 min hip spread prone
1.25 max hip spread prone

2.) Huot Optical:

0.135 ADS min spread
0.093 ADS stationary spread increase*
4.7 ADS stationary spread decrease
0.118 ADS moving spread increase*
5.9 ADS moving spread decrease
0.07 Hrecoil per shot

*This was probably calculated incorrectly because of how negative spread increase works, but maybe it's okay?
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

Source code

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AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.2
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

No Slowdown Data

Source code

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AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 1.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 0.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.0
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0


No Auto Rotation Data

Source code

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 AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho