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## CTE Battlefield Roots Initiative

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Posts: 2,014

Date of registration
: Jan 12th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 14

Sunday, March 12th 2017, 9:23pm

### Quoted from "tankmayvin"

Yeah, the standoff tank is the only one that has really interested me. Drops two of the redundant mgs from the A7V. Overall lower profile, faster (if that stays at release), loses the Erep but the spotlight is legit unlike farting a gas grenade or a suicide button. Seems to handle reverse slopes better too.

I think I'll probably end up using the gas St Chamond. The pigeon ability is essentially a "kill me now" button and the Standoff doesn't have emergency or track repair.

Smoke is nice, but more than made up for by the St Chamond's speed.
Hence why I'm ok trading Erep for speed + the smokescreen and a balistically better gun.

The gas dropper special and the shared ammo pool with gas shells really pisses me off on the gas tank. Gun is pretty nuts though.

thank mr skeltal

Posts: 214

Date of registration
: Dec 17th 2016

Platform: PC

Location: Kauai

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

Sunday, March 12th 2017, 10:53pm

The Gas tank would probably be the second worst loadout in the game(only being beaten by the Mortar truck) if it wasn't for the Airburst cannon and track armor.
Speaking of armor, I wonder what the difference between the standoff and other two tanks armor-wise as it specifically states that the standoff has less.

Holy War? No Thanks.

Posts: 2,669

Date of registration
: Jul 25th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

Monday, March 13th 2017, 11:40am

I obviously have not played for a month, and have been lurking here at best, would somebody elaborate on and summarize that initiative? Is that an experimental thing, a CTE thing, or a definite goal for this game and maybe the whole franchise from now on?

In my book I do agree with tankmayvin on the first page, just bringing a support is not going to kill a tank easier. In order to kill a proficient tanker you need to outmaneuver him and put him in a position, where losing is suddenly an option. Assaults do not kill any tank in this game, the tanker kills himself usually by over-confidence, ignorance, and wrong situation assessment.

I would also agree that map design is the issue regarding explosive spam, that and a player count that is too high. Play Metro or Locker with less than 32 players and suddenly these are a non-issue. Also some gagdgets are explicitly build to work in that cases, the XM25 for example. This is partly the player's fault as well, screaming for "moar players". But the community fixed the spam themselves with the server rules. Now DICE eliminated that entirely and also killing off private servers in the process, so they might think they need to revise the ammo system.

We had the whole concept of regenerative ammo before, even passive. It worked and works for vehicles, but I do not see it as an option for infantry play. Heck, if you were out of ammo in BF4 you were just too lazy to pick up a suiting kit, or to actively look for an ammo bag that lay around everywhere.
In my book, this is again just used as an answer to a needlessly complex system. There was never the need for a second ammo bag or medkit, BF4 showed the irrelevance of such items. They just wanted to add another unlock it seems. While in BF1, I do agree that ammo is rather scarce, there is still enough ammo on you and your comrades to deal with every threat, because unlike BF4, we are only dealing with two tanks at one time and not six. Also with generally twice the amount of players. So it works, although I do not like not being able to destroy a tank with my ammo, but I guess it is needed.
So in my book they are trying to make stuff work because they do not want to decrease their feature/unlock list although it would only make sense.

I find the ammo pouch working as it should right now, but it requires a support next to you actively spamming the darn pouches. The crate is useless because, right now, it does not give you the same benefit and you have to stay on it. The only thing I would change is, to cut one of the two and make the last one working like both combined. So you walk over the ammo crate (scrap the pouch because it is too hard to see) and gain that darn passive regen. Or just scrap the pouch and leave the crate as is, like in BF4 minus the ridiculous resupply times on some stuff. Or you could, if you really need the two different gadgets, increase the amount that can be laid down on the map to five ammo crates and ten ammo pouches. There you go now you can actively look for ammo again, that is bound to lie down somewhere.

PvF 2017 Champion

Posts: 7,160

Date of registration
: Apr 3rd 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

Friday, March 17th 2017, 6:14pm

Grenade Resupply, Ammo 2.0, and What's Next. : battlefield_live

Alacrity is here!

Now Scouts can do their job without a Support having to run from the frontline all the way back to them.

Resupply K Bullets and Flare Guns are going to be nice.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.

Are you a scrub?

### Quoted from "blahdy"

If it flies, it dies™.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "NoctyrneSAGA" (Mar 17th 2017, 6:23pm)

Up and down. Bounce all around

Posts: 3,100

Date of registration
: Apr 15th 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Sweden

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

Friday, March 17th 2017, 6:51pm

Sounds really nice, I'm looking forward too it.

The comments are also unexpectedly positive, but maybe the whiners hasn't seen it yet? I'm not trying to bash anyone, I'm just genuinely surprised that the comment section on a CTE Reddit thread about ammo regen isn't a giant salt mine.

### Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

### Quoted from "Watcher-45"

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

### Quoted from "LeGarcon"

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

PvF 2017 Champion

Posts: 7,160

Date of registration
: Apr 3rd 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

Friday, March 17th 2017, 6:53pm

Well, when a certain BF2 nostalgist responds to the person tagging them, we can surely expect some salt then.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.

Are you a scrub?

### Quoted from "blahdy"

If it flies, it dies™.

Posts: 2,014

Date of registration
: Jan 12th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 14

Friday, March 17th 2017, 7:02pm

### Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

Grenade Resupply, Ammo 2.0, and What's Next. : battlefield_live

Alacrity is here!

Now Scouts can do their job without a Support having to run from the frontline all the way back to them.

Resupply K Bullets and Flare Guns are going to be nice.
Rocket gun + persistent regen + overload vs a really strong tanker seems like a recipe for complete and utter disaster.

If done poorly:

Against a good tanker you generally die before blowing your entire load. But you can often respawn in very fast and get right back to the fight as part of a squad. But now, surprise, you're short a bunch of ammo and the tank has probably repaired some of the damage you dealt so you're going back to the deploy screen a few more times prior to killing it. Each time with less ammo.

Overloading on RG ammo is meaningless because vs a good tanker you can't blow that whole load anyway, it merely compensates for your persistent losses if you're doing multiple trips back to the deploy screen.

So if they wanted to make support more viable in combined class tank fights it'll do that, but mostly by frustrating the assault experience vs tanks. And if you've got one less assault helping out in direct fire, it's more heat on each individual assault so the overall survivabily of the gank goes down. Less effective DPS, and less ways to spread out the tank's DPS.

So why do they even care about this? It's a problem that doesn't need fixing. Support is ALREADY great vs tanks. The HE mortar does excellent anti tank work in combination with RGs, and the limpet is amazing as well as an alt. Support is already useful in tank fights situationally.

By all means given regen to gagets where they are burned up much faster than the typical life like the flare gun. But its pointless on gadgets where you're dying fast.

Posts: 3,292

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

Reputation modifier: 15

Friday, March 17th 2017, 11:27pm

### Quoted

Suppression hindering resupply. Much like passive healing and the medkit are already blocked by suppression, we'll be extending that to resupplies as well. Incoming suppression will completely halt passive resupply, and will make resupply from ammo boxes take 50% longer. This should help reduce grenade use on infantry maps like Argonne, Verdun, and Vaux where players are often in combat, and where we also see the highest rates of grenade kills, without making grenade resupply painfully long on larger maps where grenades are much less of a problem.

This is basically just genius. What is plentiful in choke points or heavily contested areas? Suppression, that's what.

### Quoted

Expanding Ammo 2.0 support to all gadgets.

I absolutely love this. This will be phenomenal for Assaults who constantly need AT gadgets for combating tanks and cannot find ammo to replenish if expended.

### Quoted

Testing persistent cooldowns. This would mean tracking ammo count through death. Players would always spawn with at least a minimum amount of ammo, but the only way to get back to maximum would be to wait for the cooldown, either waiting a long time, or quickly with the help of a Support. No more bypassing the need to resupply by dying or redeploying.

For some reason I'm having trouble understanding this part. Would someone mind explaining this in more depth?

### Quoted

Testing ammo overcharge. This would allow ammo gadgets to supply players past the normal maximum ammo for their gadgets. We can also allow progress towards the overcharge to tick up without the ammo box, then instantly apply it upon interacting with an ammo gadget.

Halle-fricken-lujah. Now that's what I call teamwork. Another really good boost to AT gadgets against armor.

---------------------------

I used to think relying on teammates to do their job was a good thing because it encouraged teamwork, however since Battlefield is designed and balanced with teamwork and coordination in mind the lack of said teamwork negatively impacts the balance itself and overall experience. Imagine where the series would be with the current, rather poor teamplay and no passive health regeneration? Chances are if you get hurt in one engagement, you'd probably die in the next one, as evidenced by Hardcore, unless you were a Medic with healing gadgets. The game would be pretty broken as players would need to use the Medic class just to stay alive leaving other classes extremely underused.

With Ammo 2.0, we're getting a more balanced experience if it goes through (which I believe it will), as it essentially acts as a phantom Support player alongside you. Because teamwork isn't always present and squads don't always stick together, DICE has to compensate through implementing a system that allows the game to function as it's meant to be played; one aspect of that is it is meant to be played where Support players are constantly resupplying their team. Now is getting ammo as bad as it has been since something like BF3/4? Not for me at least. I feel that I can get ammo from friendly Supports fairly quickly when I can find one thanks to flashing UI icon notifications, but my experience doesn't indicate an overall improvement since the previous titles either. Regardless, I wholeheartedly welcome the probable addition to the game.

Going back to the healing example (the post itself by RandomDeviation even touches on this), Medics multiply the effective rate of passive health regeneration which is something no one seems to mind. Through incorporating the same system for ammo, theoretically there should be the same, neutral reaction. Just as health is necessary to play the game, so is ammo (which is even more of a necessity concerning gadgets since their ammo count is so low). Should players be punished for participating in a match where Medics aren't nearby or they don't heal? No, and that's why passive health regeneration exists. By the same token, should players be punished for participating in a match where Supports aren't nearby or don't resupply? I should think the same answer applies, which is why Ammo 2.0 is in the works.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

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### Quoted from "Zer0Cod3x"

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2\$ tho

### My "Contributions"

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "JSLICE20" (Mar 18th 2017, 12:04am)

Posts: 2,014

Date of registration
: Jan 12th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 14

Friday, March 17th 2017, 11:47pm

Persistent cooldown means that you do not reset your ammo pool to the manimum with every respawn, but it is always pinned at some mininum so you aren't caught respawning with an RG with no ammo.

Say hypothetically for the RG, overcharged is a 6 round supply, 4 is the stock replenish ceiling and 2 is the minimum. No matter how many times you die, it will take X seconds for you to go from 2 shots to 4 shots.

Holy War? No Thanks.

Posts: 2,669

Date of registration
: Jul 25th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

Friday, March 17th 2017, 11:51pm

### Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

Grenade Resupply, Ammo 2.0, and What's Next. : battlefield_live

Alacrity is here!

Now Scouts can do their job without a Support having to run from the frontline all the way back to them.

Resupply K Bullets and Flare Guns are going to be nice.

I do like the flare gun resupply, but this could have been achieved differently as well. I liked how you could pick up a T-UGS again in BF4.

The rest I find rather alarming for suport players. You might as well remove the support, who in this game lives long enough regulalry to use all their ammo? Even then you could just pick up another kit. Honestly at this point they should scrap the class system altogether and give the next BF game a CoDesque pick 10 system.
I think passive regen of all items is just a step to make gameplay streamlined, shallow and selfish. If you waste all your rocket gun shots on infantry and then meet up with a tank it is your own bloody fault. With passive regen every tactical choice become irrelevant, just like every player is now chucking their grenades, who cares if they hit or not? So where is the challenge in thinking about the use of a gadget?
I also do not see how it makes the support player more important now, it only makes the pouch irrelevant and the ammo crate usable, basically the other way around. People will be less dependent on ammo anyway, so how is teamplay endorsed here, exactly? Oh yeah, if I always complained how supports never give ammo, medics never revive or heal, and engis never repaired, but my selfish ass could never be bothered to do the same, then this change is welcomed. It seems BF is going the lonewolf way, definitely not my game.

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