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CTE Patch 2 [3231681 - XP1] 20.2.2017: Offical Patch Notes, Symthic Changelog, New Weapons Discussion

Hey! If this is your first visit on symthic.com, also check out our weapon damage charts.
Currently we have charts for Battlefield 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, Medal of Honor: Warfighter and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

Posts: 2,015

Date of registration
: Jan 12th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 14

Wednesday, February 22nd 2017, 10:35pm

Quoted from "Iplaysgames96"

Has anyone tried the new assault tank gun? Can it be used on vanilla maps? How comparable is it to the heavy tank?

Quoted

Most recoil values were tweaked, but are not comparable to previous releases

I don't see the issue with the patch notes. No numbers were mentioned because they are not comparable anyway.

Oh yeah wanted to quote you on that one as well.

I mean just look at the confusion it caused on this forum, Labby had to interfere just to clear the air. Some people knew this stat, albeit it was irrelevant, many had never heard of it, and JSLICE20 thinks that this is the pinnacle of gaming sciene. If it caused such confusion here, of course there will be a lot more on any media that does not have a file browser background and some deep mathematical understanding.

Labby, in his explanation, talked about a cubic function, if I recall correctly. Now obviously you must have studied something that involved higher mathematics, I haven't and can only remember vaguely what it was about. I kind of look at how DMRs worked in BF4 and interpreted the name of this "new" stat. Then I took Labby's post and my analysis and considered that this will might just be alright in the long run. I am a rather cognitive person, though.

Hence, I guess, there will be quite a lot more confusion once the patch hits Live. Everybody will look on symthic, while the regular player has no idea about cubic functions, but a recoil of 1.2° is something everybody is capable of imagining. This is a huge change for symthic though, because suddenly for the SLRs the stats do not quite reflect the performance anymore. This is further confusing because, for other classes, as I understand, nothing or very little changed. Although obviously it makes sense for the SLRs, since it makes balancing the whole class easier in the future, I guess.
It's a cubic function, ie x^3, hardly higher mathematics. It's probably a cubic so that it does pile on effect with time/firing.

The fact that the recoil numbers cannot be compared on an apples to apples basis across all weapons anymore is a strange overall design choice though.

Posts: 3,292

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

Reputation modifier: 15

Wednesday, February 22nd 2017, 11:47pm

Quoted from "VincentNZ"

Ah I was just mocking you for the post you made before praising the symthic guys.

Haha, fair enough. Although you have to admit that members like that and what they provide are what separate Symthic from alternative forum spaces. Just sayin'.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

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Quoted from "Zer0Cod3x"

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2\$ tho

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "JSLICE20" (Feb 23rd 2017, 12:28am)

Holy War? No Thanks.

Posts: 2,810

Date of registration
: Jul 25th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 16

Wednesday, February 22nd 2017, 11:57pm

@tankmayvin
And when was the last time you solved a function like this? For me it must have been twelve years... I would have no clue what to with this stuff now. And you and me still have studied (I guess).

What I am getting at that BF3 and 4 was very comprehensible stat and mechanic wise and still rather deep. Basically anyone with a basic understanding of geometry could figure it out, just by looking at these great charts on here. BF1 still works the same, but is definitely more complex by adding more relevant stats like recoil and spread decrease, new stats like negative spread and SFSM and some hidden or semi-communicated modifiers. Now we have that recoildecrease thing as well, where you need quite an imaginative mind to figure it out. It does make sense though, albeit being unusual.

My point being is that the shooting mechanics are now at a point, where anyone who has not a college education will have a hard time understanding how the shooting mechanics work; it is so complex that people will interpret stuff wrong and are more likely to spread that misinformation. What I find quite disturbing is that the symthic stats still depict the weapons as understandable as they can, but are, if these changes hit, not very representative anymore, let alone the stats of the game itself.

You are kind of dividing the playerbases here, this is my major gripe, into the entitled "knowing" folks, and the other guys that look for deeper info and hitting an education barrier. I do not think this is the right way to persue this, especially if symthic wants to stay as comprehensive, popular and resourceful as before. I wonder, why this does not bother many people here, but I am kind of the ethics guy here, I suppose.

PvF 2017 Champion

Posts: 7,285

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: Apr 3rd 2012

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Thursday, February 23rd 2017, 12:36am

Quoted from "VincentNZ"

My point being is that the shooting mechanics are now at a point, where anyone who has not a college education will have a hard time understanding how the shooting mechanics work; it is so complex that people will interpret stuff wrong and are more likely to spread that misinformation. What I find quite disturbing is that the symthic stats still depict the weapons as understandable as they can, but are, if these changes hit, not very representative anymore, let alone the stats of the game itself.

There is visual feedback on the function of these weapons.

You do not need a college degree to see you are missing.

Nor do you need one to see how the crosshair is growing in size.

Should the charts in-game be more accurate? Yes.

But to say that learning the shooting mechanics requires looking at the files is ludicrous. You can learn the shooting mechanics simply by shooting.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

"Skill" may indeed be the most magical of words. Chant it well enough and any desire can be yours.

Are you a scrub?

Quoted from "blahdy"

If it flies, it dies™.

Up and down. Bounce all around

Posts: 3,100

Date of registration
: Apr 15th 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Sweden

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

Thursday, February 23rd 2017, 12:59am

@VincentNZ

Not every player needs to understand the underlying mechanics of the game.

Black Boxes are ok if their output is reasonable and balanced.

Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

Quoted from "Watcher-45"

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Quoted from "LeGarcon"

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

Posts: 2,015

Date of registration
: Jan 12th 2014

Platform: PC

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Reputation modifier: 14

Thursday, February 23rd 2017, 2:20am

Quoted from "VincentNZ"

@tankmayvin
And when was the last time you solved a function like this? For me it must have been twelve years... I would have no clue what to with this stuff now. And you and me still have studied (I guess).

What I am getting at that BF3 and 4 was very comprehensible stat and mechanic wise and still rather deep. Basically anyone with a basic understanding of geometry could figure it out, just by looking at these great charts on here. BF1 still works the same, but is definitely more complex by adding more relevant stats like recoil and spread decrease, new stats like negative spread and SFSM and some hidden or semi-communicated modifiers. Now we have that recoildecrease thing as well, where you need quite an imaginative mind to figure it out. It does make sense though, albeit being unusual.

My point being is that the shooting mechanics are now at a point, where anyone who has not a college education will have a hard time understanding how the shooting mechanics work; it is so complex that people will interpret stuff wrong and are more likely to spread that misinformation. What I find quite disturbing is that the symthic stats still depict the weapons as understandable as they can, but are, if these changes hit, not very representative anymore, let alone the stats of the game itself.

You are kind of dividing the playerbases here, this is my major gripe, into the entitled "knowing" folks, and the other guys that look for deeper info and hitting an education barrier. I do not think this is the right way to persue this, especially if symthic wants to stay as comprehensive, popular and resourceful as before. I wonder, why this does not bother many people here, but I am kind of the ethics guy here, I suppose.
I solve equations of varying complexity quite often, actually.

I don't think the underlying mechanics are all that relevant to being good at the game. Most people don't care about the mechanics for starters. Second, it's an FPS. You point and click and get visual feedback to adjust your pointing and clicking. It isn't a game where mechanics govern builds and the like and you have to understand the mechanics to make educated choices apriori.

The Real Yugas

Posts: 91

Date of registration
: Feb 15th 2017

Platform: PC

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Reputation modifier: 4

Thursday, February 23rd 2017, 2:26am

Quoted from "Ritobasu"

3) Damaged AAs cannot even be repaired by a Wrench (anecdotal bit I heard from a Support friend who tried). If they are, you can refer back to #2.

I was able to repair AA on operations last night, but it was sometimes tough to find the "hitbox" for repair to work.

Seconded. I play Support almost exclusively with the Repair Tool and I've never had a real issue repairing the AA outside of the wonky hitbox. Once you figure it out it's pretty simple.

Posts: 41

Date of registration
: Feb 24th 2014

Platform: PC

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Thursday, February 23rd 2017, 2:30am

This reminds me of a friend who dropped out of school way early and still managed to learn and understand every nerdy math bit about pokemon breeding and training.

A little elementary algebra shouldn't stop someone who is truly interested in how these mechanics work on a technical level. Those who are not interested in technicalities will still get a feel for the weapons by just playing. They probably even have the advantage using this approach because you get better by playing a lot and constant constructive self-criticism/improvement - not so much by looking at excel sheets.

Aside from that it's also a matter of presentation and visualization.

Pinkie

Posts: 7,809

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: Feb 25th 2012

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Location: italy

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Thursday, February 23rd 2017, 3:14am

Quoted from "drdim"

This reminds me of a friend who dropped out of school way early and still managed to learn and understand every nerdy math bit about pokemon breeding and training.

A little elementary algebra shouldn't stop someone who is truly interested in how these mechanics work on a technical level.

are you seriously comparing pokemon breeding with cubic functions or whatever they are and say they are "elementary algebra"? i don't know in which year you learn this stuff where i live, but i very much doubt it's before 14 year old(time i quitted school)
"I'm just a loot whore."

stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody

bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

Quoted from "CobaltRose"

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100

WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

http://i.imgur.com/4X0321O.gif

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