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: Jan 12th 2014

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31

Monday, March 19th 2018, 2:05pm

Tankmayvin do you think the release of bf1 was grindy? Or more the later spec, weapon unlock, affliction add ons? I'm asking so I can get a better idea of what grindy is from your point of view. Could you also give an example of an in game unlock system you enjoy? It feels like you and bleeding are fighting over the definition of grind even though you both have a different view of what that word means.


Grinding = doing things you don't want to do, or doing things that are aside from a natural progression (see having to replay the same level over and over to level your character), in order to make progression in a game.

BF1 is a very light grind in comparison to say...WOW or those horrid F2P monstrosities that come out of Asia. My concern is that BF becomes MORE of a grind with every iteration.

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Monday, March 19th 2018, 2:08pm

The BF1 decided to go all grindy on top of all of the other issues that saddled the game.

Grind locking is 100% like pay-to-win, especially considering you can PAY TO BYPASS THE GRIND IN BF4 and BF1!!!!!!!!


It really isn't that grindy though. The most grindy things are Specs, which are also not a major factor. It's rewarding dedicated players, but they're nothing unmanageable; I fully expect someone who plays a given game as their main online game to have more "stuff" than a casual player who plays a small handful of hours a week, at most.

Don't get me wrong, I personally prefer games where everything is unlocked, though ironically I'd support exactly what you're complaining about: Shortcuts. Everything in life a choice between time or money, and this is no different. It is not, however, pay to win.


You just said that time is equal to money, and that you'd support shortcuts, but that it isn't pay to win?

That is a 100% contraction of your statement. You are supporting a pay-2-win model with shortcuts.

Dedicated players will play the shit out of a good game if it's a good game.

A game is not real life, it shouldn't be about real life. That's the exact opposite of the point, unless you're playing simulations.

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Monday, March 19th 2018, 2:28pm

Who cares about infantry KDR, it's irrelevant, especially in Battlefield.


I couldn't tell you who cares. I was only using it as evidence to refute the claim that you were some kind of a demi-god at the game, apparently making you more exempt from completing assignments than the bulk of the playerbase. A claim that was made in reference to you, but not by you, I'm aware.

Of course, it's a purer indicator of skill than the one which reflects simply how often you choose to spend in a near-impregnable steel fortress, blasting away at semi-helpless infantry.


I never, ever claimed I was a demi-god or anything in this game. Don't put words in people's mouths, especially not mine.

Quoted

Players often settle on a handful of preferred loadouts. Whilst the balance of weapons fluctuates with every update, players are reluctant to thoroughly test each and every change. So the assignments encourage players to explore more of the nuances available in the game they purchased.


That means that the devs have failed to convey the mechanics of their game in a meaningful way. Assignments are an utterly shitty way of conveying changes. I've said this for years, but the fact that the symthic weapons interface exists means that DICE is failing at a critical design component.

Quoted

If EVERY assignment was "complete 500 kills with the M1911", then I absolutely would consider it "work" or a "grind", with no direct upsides. But I believe there are direct upsides, even before the eventual "deffered fun", except they're probably of less interest to you given that your main interest exists outside of infantry combat.


What does killing "X boats with a rocket gun", "shoot x guys in the face with MP18" etc have to do with meaningfully being prodded into exploring the various weapons in the game? If the tasks were exclusively "get 20 kills with x,y,z guns", "get x damage against air, land, sea targets with x gadgets" I would actually believe you. But its fairly clear to me that a large number of the tasks are just pointless grind.

my fav example is: "destroy x planes with lmg". If they were honest about it it would be "deal x damage to planes with lmg". But they deliberately said "destroy", with the only purpose clearly to be to extend the length of time needed to get this accomplishment. IOW, it is grinding.

Quoted

Except Battlefield is predominantly not a competitive game (see the development of incursions).


Competitive just means player versus player, not "semi-professional".

Quoted

Maybe. But a lack of "progression" also leads to players switching to titles which offer something more in that regard.


So let them. There are games designed entirely around that mechanic. Fact remains, the presence of grinding progression does not predict the success of a game.

Quoted

Do you have any evidence to suggest that the current level of progression isn't finely poised to best appease both ends of the spectrum, other than a Wikipedia link or the fact that you'd bet on something?


Do you have any evidence that it is finely poised to satisfy the most people? The burden of proof actually lies on you with that statement.

I am stating the rather obvious fact that grinding in any form is controversial, because it is.

Quoted

Oddly, you seem to mention a more unfair system of unlocks, and state that you prefer it. Having to use a weapon without attachments puts you at a fundamental disadvantage relative to the competition, whereas using an alternative weapon + variant in BF1 enforces no such penalty.


Bullshit. You are at a huge disadvantage just trying to get a damn gun in the first place. How does "get x kills behind a sniper shield", "do something really stupid for several rounds until you get the damn task done", etc, etc not put you at a fundamental disadvantage compared to other players?

With BF4, at least you can play to win besides not having the right gucci-gadgets on your gun. In BF1 you have to go do stupid shit constantly.

Having to run around doing specific things would be fine if everything in the game was actually viable. But it's not. The sniper shield is shit. The Xbow is shit (but you have to blow up multiple vehicles/tanks with it! Not damage, destroy.). etc, etc, etc.


Quoted

I remember there being an outcry that there was not enough progression in unlocking the base weapons. The DLC assignments were then likely designed to somewhat remedy that.


People will whine about anything/everything. The only way you can get them to shut up is making the game so fun they forget to complain. Grinding isn't the way to accomplish that.

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