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  • "Iplaysgames96" started this thread

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Wednesday, February 14th 2018, 7:37am

Handguns and carbines...

So Im going to be as analytical as possible here even though ultimately everything here is subjective. Im sorry if this is long I will try to avoid a wall o' text

If we compare handguns across battlefield games back to BF3, BF1's handguns are perhaps the worst now with the new TTK update. I honestly feel like most of the handguns should have had increased ROF with the patch.

I remember the somewhat fiery debates about handguns in BF3 over how they are supposed to be backup weapons and not pocket primary weapons. I was fine with the pistols seeing how they had an extra 4 meter 4 shot range over the 5.56mm ARs, MGs and carbines. In BF4, after the max damage decrease (TTK) patch, I had no problem with the pistols 4 shotting while the ARs needed 5 due to the TTK of the primary weapons still exceeding handguns. in BF1 pre TTK patch, I still had no problem with the high damage pistols due to the slower ROF and the smaller magazines. However with this TTK patch being released, Handguns do feel like they either need a ROF increase or a damage increase in some cases (Im talking to YOU Smithy number 3 and YOU Mr. howdah)

Perhaps Increasing the P08 and C96 to 359RPM, the MLE, M1912, and C93 to 399RPM, and the Mars+Nagant to 224RPM would be sufficient. I excluded the others because I feel they need a different kind of balance. One thing I hated about the P08 was it was just an M1911 that performed better when the ladder started to share the same damage/range profile past a certain distance. I think to better differentiate, the m1911 should be left at 299 and perhaps a range profile increase by 4M or so would better suit it and make it more unique.

To be blunt, the only saving grace of the number three revolver is its reload time. Outside of its two shot kill range and perhaps its three, it is utter garbage. The No3 in game is chambered for 44 american. This round was slow and heavy like the 45ACP but still was somewhat anemic in terms of muzzle energy. I think this is why it is modeled as a low damage revolver in game sharing the same damage as the Bulldog revolver. (the 442 webley fired by the bulldog and the 44 SW american are similar in weight and muzzle energy) Knowing DICE codes damage into the bullet caliber, (all 7.92mm SLRs have the same damage, the 7.62mmR shared by the Mosin and the 1895 share same velocity and sweetspot Etc.) I suggest they change the No 3 to fire the much more powerful 44-40 winchester; one of the many rounds this gun was chambered for.

.44-40 Winchester - Wikipedia

This round could share the damage and range profile of the 1870 gasser (in the same way the 442 webley and the 44SW currently share the same damage/range profile despite being different calibers) The slow ROF of the No3 would balance it out. If need be, the ROF could be decreased back down to the original 150RPM.

The final one I want to discuss is the howdah. Currently it is modeled to fire the .455 webley of the auto revolver and the upcoming MkIV webley revolver.
Lancaster pistol - Wikipedia
The lancaster howdah that the game version is based off of has multiple calibers available. One that it was chambered for and I think DICE should re code it to fire is the 577 Snider. A massive and powerful round that was used for big game. It could be balanced by increasing the range profile to be like that of the gasser and increase the minimum damage to a more hefty number like 28. in exchange for this massive increase to damage, Increase the recoil by an appropriate amount and slow the rate of fire to perhaps 199RPM. This would make the howdah a very unique handgun; a high skill required four shot hand cannon with a sh*t ton of recoil.

Finally, the carbines should be rebalanced with much of the same principles. perhaps the p08 artillery can be like the m1917 trench carbine and so on.

Ok im done sorry I made a wall o' text again... :sleeping:
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Wednesday, February 14th 2018, 11:00am

I was thinking the same thing at the start of the ttk patch but after a few hours play I don't think they need any buff. The ttk patch did make semiauto pistols much less effective but the revolvers other then the gasser. No 3, nagant are perfectly fine. You can't buff the semi without taking away what makes the revolvers fun and worth it to use. The reason the no3 has so many faults is so that the class specific revolvers have a purpose and they fit where the no3 fails i.e. Rof vs reload speed. Also you wouldn't want a trench raider with a medic auto revolver that can kill .105 ms faster at 10m and .207ms faster at 16m with its 3btk. Though I would love to be that trench raider.... for science.

I believe the Howdah has the second fastest ttk in 10m after the obrez and is right infront of the bulldog, bodeo, and auto revolver in that order. Beefing the damage or Rof will turn their ttk times into something faster then the m1912 bullet hose and the TTks are close already. Howdah 277,auto revolver 311, m1912 229 at 10m. Having that amazing ttk to 10m and that big drop off from 11-16m is what makes gunplay with the revolvers fun. In the moment do you crouch slide right at the guy to close distance? Throw a grenade and duck behind cover to reload? Try for the 3btk? If the enemy is in the 11-16m range falling back and reloading your primary or secondary is probably a better tactic then trying for that longer range pistol kill. Even if you only land two chest shots with your revolver at that 11-16 range your still doing 46-33 damage each and it's possible you can get a kill assist. Seeing as how the damages of the revolvers are very close to out doing the high ttk primaries after the ttk patch buffing them now will make things far worse.

I will agree that the semi autos aren't great but it's because they are meant to be easy to use. Missed shots being less punishing and quick reloads to help the more spam friendly sidearm. I have got some good kill feeds with autos but they don't do what I need a sidearm in this game to do and that's kill quickly in cqb. If they did kill quicker we would have no need for revolvers. The c93, po8 Mle among others are neglected and are far too similar and could use some love.

Carbines I have no opinion on really because I don't use them much. They do seem hard to balance with medic dmr style rifles on one side and smg/lmgs on the other. Hard to make a gun fit in the middle of that without being more on one side then the other. Honestly I think it's like the no3 all over again. They can't make them better then the primaries of the infantry class. It's hard enough taking out a tank but imagine if when that tanker got out he could still out gun infantry classes. The double barrel and auto frommer are something else.....

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Justforfun" (Feb 14th 2018, 11:08am)


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Wednesday, February 14th 2018, 8:35pm

Revolvers are still fine as they are, but semi-autos and their carbines are in desperate need of buffs. :S
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  • "Iplaysgames96" started this thread

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Thursday, February 15th 2018, 7:03am

Revolvers are still fine as they are


Yeah but Im afraid the addition of the Webley Mk4 will bury the No 3 in a grave : (
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Thursday, February 15th 2018, 10:03am

Revolvers are still fine as they are


Yeah but Im afraid the addition of the Webley Mk4 will bury the No 3 in a grave : (


No.3 should have "full auto" like the Gasser and Trench Gun, that would be something. The Nagant should too.
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Thursday, February 15th 2018, 6:36pm

I agree if almost every gun in the game got a buff, the pistols deserve something.

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Friday, February 16th 2018, 1:34am

Obviously if literally every Assault, Medic and Support primary weapon gets buffed, sidearms will be weaker by comparison. Without getting into the details, how do you feel about this in general?

It's not realistic that a sidearm can compete with the firepower of a primary weapon, but realism isn't BF1's cornerstone anyway, and they are much more difficult to use. E.g. the Auto Revolver can still beat almost every primary weapon's TTK in CQB, but with a much smaller margin than before, and it's far less forgiving of missed shots due to the slow rate of fire. Semiauto pistols that used to have TTK on par with primaries are now left in the dust.

While it's not really part of this topic, the Scout's rifles (except the M1903 Experimental, which received a massive buff) were also indirectly nerfed. They arguably weren't affected that much because they have a very specific niche of just out-ranging every other weapon and using headshots and the sweet spot mechanic to score instant kills, but every little bit counts. Their sidearms being weaker than before really hurts their limited ability to fight at close range against SMGs and LMGs, and the 1895 Trench is even more difficult to use than before. With the Medic's semiauto rifles receiving an accuracy buff, Scouts are really going to struggle against them unless they can get the instant kill (which is very circumstantial) or sit so far back that Medics can't effectively return fire, which is probably like 100+ meters for the more accurate SLRs.

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Thursday, February 22nd 2018, 8:55pm

I really think they just need 1 less bullet at range (except Mars and obrez) and the hip fire improved. its awkward how bad they are at 20m, its like throwing stones.