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This post by "Skanic" (Saturday, January 27th 2018, 5:01pm) has been deleted by the author himself (Sunday, January 28th 2018, 7:58pm) with the following reason: no information given on why score is bad

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Saturday, January 27th 2018, 6:38pm

This sidearm scoring is a bad joke
the frommerstop is bad 450 rpm pistol
All the other 450 rpm pistols have more ammo
Scout only needs mars.
Support is bulldog and obrez
Medic is obviously auto revolver, taschenpistole and obrez
assault obrez, hammerless


Lots of excellent analysis and constructive feedback in your post. Why should I even bother?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "InterimAegis" (Jan 27th 2018, 9:21pm)


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Sunday, January 28th 2018, 8:13am

You might want to look at your stats and possibly rethink how you calculate the best pistol. Right now it looks like your bumping up the stats you like and take less from others. It might be more even and unbiased if you did something different like ttk + deploy time, deploy time + ttk against half health enemy, ttk, and then average them. Correct me if I'm wrong but that might give a better idea what the two different pistol categories there are in bf1. Close range 10m or less and the less punishing but more consistent damage guns.

Let's looks at the 10m guns first. The 10m guns shine in 10m but they have a slower deploy time but that isn't everything. For someone who is more preemptive with hangun use they will get more from these guns. Ttks that will rival each classes best ttk primary weapons with the highest usage like the automatico/hellriegel, bar/mg14, auto 8 .35/.25. If you already have your side arm out because your entering a building or seen an enemy on the map deploy time means nothing. At 10m the automatico can kill in 293 and that sounds crazy good unless you look at the auto revolver 311,bodeo 307, bulldog 280, and even howda 277. These TTks alone would make anyone give them a good look over the faster to deploy counterparts. Fun fact the bodeo has a ttk out at 16m of 331 that's better then guns like the mg15, automatico, auto loading extended. Sure won't be easy at that range with spread and bullet speed but it does make it a better looking pistol ..... with a terrible reload.

A more reactive hangun user who needs fast reload times and deploy times would do better with the other type of pistol. Easier to use with a higher rpm so you don't have to be as accurate. Nothing really wrong with them. You might be more consistant at a higher rpm or need a pistol that is more ok with you missing one shot. Just look at the 1903 hammer less. Does what the 1911 can do for reloads with a faster ttk at range and faster deploy time. These guns will never equal the ttk of the most popular primaries but that's why they are balanced.

Your equation now doesn't take these intended uses into account or give a player options for how they play and their skill set. It is a good equation for what you look for in a sidearm and what would be a good starting place if someone was interested in using a new pistol. I don't believe it gives the big picture.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Justforfun" (Jan 28th 2018, 8:19am) with the following reason: Bad ttk info on 1911 vs 1903


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Sunday, January 28th 2018, 1:56pm

MLE over Auto Revolver? I totally do NOT dig that.
As someone with 50 stars on the AR, whom has been using the MLE lately, it just doesn't compare, at all! MLE is 4btk with mediocre rate of fire, it's bad at killing people who have full health and only real upsides are draw time and dmg curve. I would much rather take 1911 if I had to take a pistol, or Auto Revolver if I'm just gonna play medic as usual (my typical pairing is AL8+AR, RSC+AR, 1907+1911). I have quite a few service stars with the Obrez, and while it is a fun gun, it's way too unreliable to rely on it as a secondary. Too many 90dmg shots if you hit the gut or the arms, which happens way too often.
I do not like this ranking at all.
Everything can work.

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Sunday, January 28th 2018, 5:31pm

This sidearm scoring is a bad joke
the frommerstop is bad 450 rpm pistol
All the other 450 rpm pistols have more ammo
Scout only needs mars.
Support is bulldog and obrez
Medic is obviously auto revolver, taschenpistole and obrez
assault obrez, hammerless


Lots of excellent analysis and constructive feedback in your post. Why should I even bother?


The frommer stop has less bullets than the other 450 rpm pistols, also I believe you are contributing to much score to deploy times of guns.
Also in case of shooting someone with a rifle, you will need more than 1 bullet in order to kill someone, where as with a Mars you can just hipfire from far away or close range.
Also the Mars is much more practical and useful and versatile.

The MLE is overrated on Symthic because,
1. MLE deploy time
2. MLE 20M ttk
Reason why the MLE is a terrible gun, slow rpm, slow reload, low dmg.

Bodeo is just as fast as the Auto revolver with a massive trade off. Which is a 8 second reloading time, again the Mars is better here because if you headshot it becomes a 2 hit kill in close range too.
Also the new All class Auto Revolver might replace it now.



Steyr M1912 Support is pretty much an MLE with an even worse reload time

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Sunday, January 28th 2018, 6:19pm

Thanks for the feedback - since this is the first time Im trying to score sidearms, I will iterate and get back to you.

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Sunday, January 28th 2018, 7:31pm

I think the most important factors when considering and rating sidearms are:

>Effectiveness at killing someone at full health within reasonable pistol ranges (0-15m)
>Effectiveness at killing enemies that have been damaged by your primary at medium ranges (10 to 20m)
>Effectiveness at killing wounded enemies point blank (0-15m)
>Effectiveness at doing all of the above in quick succession/with a fast pace.

The reasons why I think these should be the most important factors; if you play classes like Medic or Scout you might find yourself "relying" (needing to use your secondary as a primary weapon) on your secondary for extreme close quarters where your semi auto/bolt action is not effective at all, or for classes like Assault and Support if your primary is out of ammo and you need to kill people with your secondary, how good at bringing down someone from 100 to 0 should be your main concern, as you should assume your secondary pistol will be competing against primary weapons. The better the TTK for this, the more effective your sidearm is. This extends into finishing off wounded enemies point blank, which you might have hurt either with your semi auto, bolt action, or fully automatic primary but then need to rely on your secondary for the finisher (here draw time is more important than raw TTK). And finally, for finishing off people outside of pistol range if your primary is out of ammo.

Obviously, for an effective player, absolute TTK is the most important stat, as they will willingly switch to the secondary when entering CQC areas, which makes draw time not that relevant. For players with a more reactive than predictive playstyle, draw time might be more attractive than raw ttk, however I think a reactive playstyle will always be worse than a predictive playstyle in a game like Battlefield 1 where there's no G18/93R. For Scout, the most important factors for a pistol are how fast it can be drawn and how far away it can one shot a wounded enemy from a bolt action. Since scout is not a CQC oriented class, or doesn't need to be point blank there is no need for a weapon that can kill lots of people from 100hp to 0 back to back.

For the medic, however, which needs to be up close and personal to be effective and revive people and push forward, a formidable secondary weapon like the Auto Revolver, or the Taschenpistole which has an amazing reload speed, it's much more important to be able to put away your unweildy primary and quickly dispatch players with your secondary, that is unless you are already using something like Fedorov Trench or 1907 Trench.

Rambling aside, I think the priorities in this rating are not right, as Skanic said; there's too much emphasis on draw time and ranged performance. The 1911 gets a lot of flak on Symthic for being "bad" and worse than the P08, yet in practise, the P08's rate of fire leaves much to be desired and the damage profile isn't something to write home about either. In my case, when playing maps like Argonne and Vaux, using the 1907 I'll always pair it with the 1911; why? It's good at finishing wounded enemies by 1907, it can kill people point blank pretty quickly, and can deal with a few enemies in a pinch, it's spammy but not too much, it's a good all rounder.
If I'm playing with more unforgiving primaries like the AL8, RSC or Liu, I'll always pick the Auto Revolver as it allows me to continue being aggressive inside the point and offers stellar survivavility to the medic.

I've used all the medic secondaries a fair bit, quite frankly I have no reasons whatsoever to pick guns like the P08, C96, C93 and MLE over the 1911, Taschenpistole and Auto Revolver. Likewise, with the Scout I either use Frommer Stop or Mars Automatic.
Everything can work.

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Sunday, January 28th 2018, 8:18pm

Also need to add that since the hipfire in this game is absolutely insane on pistols you shouldn't take into account the ADS stats or put much of an emphasis on it.

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Monday, January 29th 2018, 7:12pm

No Kolibri analysis? :P

Sidearms feel so different now compared to BF3... In BF3 I was perfectly capable of rolling with some sidearms as a primary when I got bored (or when moving around as a sniper) and very frequently I'd quickswitch to my trusty 1911 as a very effective finishing tool -- The accurate range and lethality was that good... But in BF1 I can go multiple rounds without even touching my sidearm, or only using it out of last-resort desperation (my top sidearm only has 94 kills). Granted, they are nice up close and the hipfire is generally better than in BF3, but because of the new melee mechanic I'm much more likely to try to pickaxe someone or whatever when I'm 5m or closer...

FWIW, while there are better options out there, I'll never deviate from my Hellfighter 1911 because I'm doing it for the culture...

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "botafogo4life" (Jan 30th 2018, 3:07pm)


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Monday, January 29th 2018, 8:42pm

>Effectiveness at killing someone at full health within reasonable pistol ranges (0-15m)
>Effectiveness at killing enemies that have been damaged by your primary at medium ranges (10 to 20m)
>Effectiveness at killing wounded enemies point blank (0-15m)
>Effectiveness at doing all of the above in quick succession/with a fast pace.


I agree with all of these. I also gave the Auto Revolver a run last night, and you have converted me. I definitely want to tweak a few things - trouble is I am having a bit of difficulty coming up with mathematical models for them. Some are easy:

1) Same thing I usually do
2) Break out damage per class and use deploy time (e.g. arm shot from scout vs. landing 1 bullet from a 1907)
3) See #1, but with different damage targets - 25, 50, 75?
4) How do we quantify this?

The frommer stop has less bullets than the other 450 rpm pistols, also I believe you are contributing to much score to deploy times of guns.
Also in case of shooting someone with a rifle, you will need more than 1 bullet in order to kill someone, where as with a Mars you can just hipfire from far away or close range.
Also the Mars is much more practical and useful and versatile.


Why does 1 bullet in the Frommer matter? I agree - too much weight deploy time and too much emphasis on 20+ m.

As for the Mars (and, basically, the Nagant and M1911) - I just can't figure out why it is good.