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  • "InterimAegis" started this thread

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Thursday, January 25th 2018, 10:58pm

Sidearm Scoring: Jan '18

Back with a sidearm ranking. Methodology is the same as my Medic Rifle Scoring, except my final weighting is slightly different: 62.5% effective TTK, 27.5% deploy time, and 10% effective KPR. Bottom line is that I think deploy time is really really important for effective sidearm usage and should represent a significant chunk of value. KPR matters much less since most sidearm usage is CQC 1v1 and frequently reactionary (e.g. in the middle of a primary reload). Here are the results:

Assault: The shortest range class gets the longest range sidearm in the form of the Gasser. It's solid out to 20 m, but features a poor draw time. The unique 449 RPM sidearm (1903 Hammerless) is very serviceable if that's your thing. Recommendation: Mle 1903. Better draw time, better damage model, and easier click rate make for the best all-class sidearm.

Medic: Many people love the Auto Revolver, but it's score is pretty mediocre here due to a lackluster effective TTK. Recommendation: Mle 1903 (see above).

Support: Bulldog is very well-rounded and the top ranked sidearm. Excellent draw time combined with excellent TTK make this the highest rated sidearm in BF1, and excellent in a quick pinch when you are in the middle of a 10-hour LMG reload animation. With the increase to LMG ADS time, I will be using this a lot in CQC. The Steyr M1912 is quite good too. Think of it as a straight upgrade to the Mle 1903 (same draw time and damage model with better accuracy). If you don't like revolvers, the M1912 is an excellent choice if you can stomach the horrible reload mechanics. Recommendation: Bulldog.

Scout: Frommer, full Stop. Tied with the Bulldog for fastest draw time, this is the ultimate clean-up sidearm for scouts. Use the Bodeo if you need your sidearm to have more range, but the Bodeo's 150 ms longer draw time is extremely noticeable. Recommendation: Frommer Stop.

Honorable mention: My final recommendation is the Obrez. It breaks the rankings a bit because it is fairly useless outside of 10 m unless you have a wounded target. However, it functions like a pocket shotgun and can get you out of sticky situations. Be prepared for frustrating moments when you hit a limb and don't secure the kill. It's terrible RoF means if you miss, you lose.

Ranking list:
1) Bulldog (Support)
2) Frommer Stop (Scout)
3) Bodeo (Scout)
4) Steyr M1912 (Support)
5) Mle 1903 (All Class)
HM: Obrez (All Class)
InterimAegis has attached the following files:
  • RawStats2nd.png (703.47 kB - 26 times downloaded - latest: Mar 31st 2018, 12:46am)
  • Scores2nd.png (471.06 kB - 24 times downloaded - latest: Mar 15th 2018, 1:11pm)

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Thursday, January 25th 2018, 11:53pm

Honestly, I think the Frommer Stop is slightly overrated in terms of its ability to finish off a guy you just hit with your rifle. Sure, it has the fastest draw time and rate of fire, but if the rifle* hits the lower torso or upper arms, it only does 72 damage, meaning that e.g. a Mle 1903 can secure the kill with one shot while the Frommer Stop can't. Even if you always manage to hit the chest, the range is capped out to 10m.

The FS does work more reliably with the G95, as it has higher damage and better multipliers than most Scout rifles.

*Edit for clarification; this refers to the most common type of rifles, which deal 80 damage at close range.

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "Platypusbill" (Jan 26th 2018, 10:39pm)


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Friday, January 26th 2018, 12:13am

Honestly, I think the Frommer Stop is slightly overrated in terms of its ability to finish off a guy you just hit with your rifle. Sure, it has the fastest draw time and rate of fire, but if the rifle hits the lower torso or upper arms, it only does 72 damage, meaning that e.g. a Mle 1903 can secure the kill with one shot while the Frommer Stop can't. Even if you always manage to hit the chest, the range is capped out to 10m.

The FS does work more reliably with the G95, as it has higher damage and better multipliers than most Scout rifles.


This is one reason why I wanted to post this now - perhaps the categories and weighting need to be slightly changed. I could add an additional category for follow-up damage above a certain threshold, for example, and roll that into the draw time category. Excellent suggestion.

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Friday, January 26th 2018, 1:56am

I'm having a hard time reading your charts, but I'm surprised the 1911 didn't make the list on sheer real world practicality. Kills reasonably quickly, in 3 shots, meaning you can miss twice and still get a double kill. The only one I really disagree with is the Bodeo. Yes, it's a fine revolver, but it's reload is *atrocious*. I'd honestly rather use *any* other side arm, except for maybe the oberez.

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Friday, January 26th 2018, 5:26am

Because the M1911 is not actually that good.

The 10m 3HK is overshadowed by the 10m 2HK of revolvers.

Thereafter it becomes a P08 clone but with way worse accuracy.
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Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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Friday, January 26th 2018, 6:40am

I'm having a hard time reading your charts, but I'm surprised the 1911 didn't make the list on sheer real world practicality. Kills reasonably quickly, in 3 shots, meaning you can miss twice and still get a double kill. The only one I really disagree with is the Bodeo. Yes, it's a fine revolver, but it's reload is *atrocious*. I'd honestly rather use *any* other side arm, except for maybe the oberez.


Sorry you are having trouble reading them. I do recommend enlarging the images, and I’m not an expert at the symthic tools and layout. If there is a better way, please let me know.

As for the M1911, it’s honestly fairly mediocre in terms of TTK. If you are relying on quick reloads and multiple kills per mag, something is amiss. A sidearm is a poor substitute for a primary weapon, which is why reload speed is a non-factor in my analysis. Again - I am calculating effective TTK and KPR at all ranges using a hitrater.

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Friday, January 26th 2018, 10:44am

I think we should also take into account which class and primary weapon you are complementing your sidearm with. Obviously that is impossible to do an empirical analysis on (Your analysis is great by the way!) but rather a topic of discussion and argumentation.

I agree mostly with your Sidearm list, on Assault the Gasser is a smart choice for that extra range punch (although you could go with the C93 altogether for better range capabilities) but I think for people with outstanding Aim and perhaps on smaller game modes (Domination, Frontlines) the Howdah Pistol is criminally underrated. With the CQB Nature of the Assault, the Howdah with its 257RPM and 4 Shots gives you the capability to kill 2 players faster than the Gasser or the Hammerless and a better reload than the Gasser as well. You just can't miss.

On the Medic, I am in Team Auto Revolver as well and that because the primaries the Medic gets. The Auto Revolver is an easy to use, fast to reload and forgiving sidearm that every medic should use when venturing into CQB (Buildings, Ruins, Staircases etc) because not only it offers the best TTK inside 10M for the relevant medic guns and side arms but also because it gives you the ability to deal with 3 players (It is very easy to hit those hip fire shots with the AR). Now, if you use either a long ranged Medic Gun, eg the 1906 or god forbid the M1916, or the small clip guns, eg M8 or 1906, you are going to need the AR in my opinion, period. The Mle 1903 stacks up badly in extreme CQB against the Automatico, Hellriegel and BAR and other High RPM guns.

Regarding the Support I fully agree on the Bulldog, best Sidearm in the Game, period.

Regarding Scout i also run Frommer Stop most of the Time, but sometimes I wish for the one extra bullets, the other class specific 450RPM pistols have.

I am really stoked for the Apocalypse DLC including the Webley MK6 Revolver - from what I have seen so far, it might be my Sidearm of choice for the Scout class from there on and maybe even Assault.

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Friday, January 26th 2018, 6:24pm

On the Medic, I am in Team Auto Revolver as well and that because the primaries the Medic gets. The Auto Revolver is an easy to use, fast to reload and forgiving sidearm that every medic should use when venturing into CQB (Buildings, Ruins, Staircases etc) because not only it offers the best TTK inside 10M for the relevant medic guns and side arms but also because it gives you the ability to deal with 3 players (It is very easy to hit those hip fire shots with the AR). Now, if you use either a long ranged Medic Gun, eg the 1906 or god forbid the M1916, or the small clip guns, eg M8 or 1906, you are going to need the AR in my opinion, period. The Mle 1903 stacks up badly in extreme CQB against the Automatico, Hellriegel and BAR and other High RPM guns.


I don't agree with this. The RSC is basically an Auto Revolver. The Autoloadings also have basically the same TTK within 10 m and much less recoil. Better to utilize the fast draw of the Mle 1903 when you run out of bullets on the small-clip SLRs, in my opinion.

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Friday, January 26th 2018, 6:39pm

SIX BULLETS
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Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

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Saturday, January 27th 2018, 2:15am

M O R E T H A N
AaaaaN
AaaaaO
AaaaaU
AaaaaG
AaaaaH

signature 2.2

Things I support
ammo regen pls

Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

_____
When I play with it [Autoloading 8] I feel like I am batman taking out 1 after 1 baddie while they feel helpless and don't know who is talking out their mates.
Remove 3D spotting. It’s a mechanic that rewards bad eyesight.
Wanna help your team by sneaking through enemy territory to provide spawns? THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK FGT I HOPE YOU RUN OUT OF MOTION BALLS TOO EARLY TO BE SUCCESSFUL
Wanna be Javelin squad but only have two guys? BETTER NOT GET YOUR SOFLAM KILLED FGT THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK WITHOUT A SUPPORT DUDE DROPPING AMMO ON YOU EVERY 2 MINUTES
Please post your best M1916 clips Magazines *fixed*.


DICE pls

Squadmate Healthbars in the HUD
Minor console QoL improvements
Ping Tool idea
"Wants to talk" tag for squad menu
Adding Suppression Confirmation
Spotting suggestions

Posts I should finish sometime:
Squad priority vehicle system (and anti stealing suggestion)
Scoring system flaws (and concept)
Battlefield definition
New helicopter idea
Suppression rework
Flow, immersion and fun in battlefield
Specializations: ideas and system rework
Gadget reworks and ideas
Why limited infinite ammo would be awesome
Other bitesize ideas