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11

Thursday, January 18th 2018, 10:27am

MP_River! YES! So we are getting the long-awaited Isonzo River map! More Italy, beautiful Italian countryside, and another large vehicle map! I also see MP_Alps, so that's another Italian Operation! :thumbsup:



The Chauchat SMG should prove fantastically fun, I was really disappointed we didn't get it with TSNP.

The Howell will indeed be quite similar to the Farquhar, but it will almost certainly give us the longer range variants the Hill is lacking, namely Factory and Marksman. I've always wanted an all-round Marksman variant, considering the only two Medic has are the Rem 8 .35 and M1916, at utter extreme ends of the RoF/capacity spectrum. Should be a very solid rifle, not to mention its amazingly steampunk design and animations.

The MG 01/18 really is just the Sentry's LMG with an air-cooled barrel instead of water-cooled, but I've also always maintained that gun would be perfectly balanced as a Support gun, and here we are. I'd imagine it will be nearly identical, though the air-cooled barrel means it will have a faster overheat, and it will also get a working bipod and variants too.

The Enfield 1917 is the least unique thing on the list, but it's still a nice rifle and something people have been asking for all along. It's an M1903 Infantry with six rounds, which interestingly still doesn't preclude the '03 Infantry being added as a firemode to the Experimental, as the extra round balances against the Pedersen and also needing to switch to rifle every spawn.

The Ross! I'm so happy about this! Another straight-pull rifle is really exciting, and it will inevitably have longer range than the M.95. It's a sexy rifle, and is also Canadian. And hyped!

The Webley Mk.VI is another common request, and will almost certainly be this, and all-class.



CameraPigeon!? Are we actually getting the long-awaited Pigeon MAV!? 8o

Livens Projector. Gas (and Incendiary?) Mortar. Neat.

Prybar is both in melee and Gadgets, I wonder which it actually is.

We also have a broken bottle and meat cleaver. Yep, that's sufficiently apocalypse-y.



My only real complaint is I'm really sad there's no Burton LMR. :S



Once again, in vacuum, these things aren't that bad. Within context of actual uniqueness, only half of them are bad, and with context of balance, most are bad, either risking to make an existing weapon redundant (Webley with the nr3, enfield with the springfield, though they might just use it to finally fill the demand of the infantry variant, but even then it would be spectecularly badly balanced if only by virtue of its sweetspot making an ironsighted variant only good for RP builds, and then the ross-rifle for the enfield; I cannot see many other ways to balance this other than it literally being a small-mag enfield with faster rate of fire and no scope out requirement, which would make it vastly superior to the marksman variant.) even if it would be balanced, in arguably, none of them would truly be unique in the sense of adding a new flavor of play opening up new tactics for the class or new weapon mechanics. And it is this that fundementally upset me.

However, I don't really see how the howell can be made unique; at best, you get an FH with a scope with a mostly redundant factory variant hanging on its side.

Once again, I don't argue against the idea that the MG08/18 can be balanced. I am arguing against the idea that it can be meaningful. If it is the rate of fire I find most commonly, 450 rounds per minute, it is, well, another large-capacity 450 rounds per minute LMG. And i'll be perfectly honest here if they wanted it they should've added this one instead of the heavy-as-ball M1917. Don't get me wrong, I love that gun but still, it can be balanced to fit a nearly identical niche. Visually, it is far to similiar to the MG15. functionally, it would either be an MG15 clone or a M1917 clone. Either way, it really isn't unique. Thought that was already ruined by the premise of "hey lets take one of the most common machine guns of the war and put an aircooled jacket on it).


The Chauchat, also, has a problem. Perhaps the 20 round variant can be balanced in a meaningful way, but the 8 round variant sure as shit cannot, because it would basically end up doing the exact same thing as the P12/16, with more damage per shot with less rate of fire, but really the same feel and role. I wouldn't argue against that 600 3-shot vs 900 4-shot isn't not unique. I just argue against it being meaningful.



And that is the fundemental point. Remember, the description of the DLC is GO OVER THE TOP IN THE MOST INFAMOUS BATTLES OF WW1. CONQUER BITTERLY CONTESTED GROUND WITH BRUTAL TOOLS AND UNIQUE WEAPONS.

Most of these weapons are not unique in the slightest. They would provide a mild variation of what we already have. In normal situations I wouldn't really care, and I wouldn't bat an eye if these weapons got introduced in a weapons crate DLC, but in this DLC, they are nothing short of making the description false advertisement.

Heck, just off the top of my head, I can think of more unique weaponry for every class:

Assault: Annihalator, elephant gun, Krkna shotgun conversion
Medic: Madsen rasmussen (possibly its old blackpowder variant which would compete with the RSC. aside from looking unique in all its variations, it would also function uniquely) and meunier (a self-loader with an absolutely ridiculous muzzle velocity. Technically the niche this gun can fill is already filled by the Selbstlader 1906 (as best countersniper SLR), but then again, perhaps 0.1% of the players has this gun), Winchester 1910 (would basically be an RSC with an even smaller mag but 1HSK potential)
Support: Burton LMR (a weapon that would have sub-par stat but would have a weapon unique gadget option that allows you to pop in the second magazine which would have explosive ammo, drastically increasing its damage vs aircraft), Lewis Assault Rifle (not that unique given that the BAR is a thing but hey still more unique than a 450rof big mag), and of course the Kjëllman, possibly also in blackpowder configuration to allow a weird hybrid between the chauchat and the madsen to exist.
Sniper: Rolling block, elephant gun again, Carcanno self-loading conversion. Literally giving it a 10 round Howell so it has a shitty SLR to complement its shitty SMG (yes yes I know this gun wil be better next patch).


What they went for isn't just low hanging fruit. Its a bloody potato they tripped over. I hope this wepaon list is incomplete, or as I saw Animator merc hint when the ITNOTT weapons were datamined, intentional red herrings to fuck with miners.

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Thursday, January 18th 2018, 10:36am

Maybe we should actually play with the weapons before flipping out about them?
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Thursday, January 18th 2018, 11:21am

Maybe we should actually play with the weapons before flipping out about them?


First of all, no, this is the internet, of course we shouldn't. Huehuehuehuehue

Second of all, irrespective of how they play its already a betrayal of the "unique weapons" advertisment in the most part

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Thursday, January 18th 2018, 12:33pm

Even though he's pretty heated up, Colers isn't necessarily incorrect. Unless DICE takes plenty of civil liberties and/or adds even more guns to the DLC, the new, leaked guns sound quite "meh" for the most part.

The Howell Automatic sounds like an excuse to give the Farquhar-Hill two extra variants while not aesthetically rehashing it. The Meunier A6 (Carbine) should have been part of Apocalypse. There's so many more unique things DICE could do with that.

The MG 08/18 is really just going to be treading similar grounds to what the MG 15 n.A., Perino M1908, and Browning M1917 have already completely stomped out. Granted, this would be quite a bit easier to wield than the latter two, and it should have taken precedence over them. However, what's been added isn't going to be removed, and as such the MG 08/18 is sounding quite pointless.

The M1917 Enfield has always been a gorgeous rifle to me. From a gameplay perspective, though, it's likely going to be very run-of-the-mill. The .30-06 Springfield "sweet spot" is also a bit too far out for practical use with an Infantry variant. Though, it'd be good for role-play along with shits'n'giggles.

The Ross can be very exciting or very disappointing. Unfortunately, I have the feeling DICE will take the easy way out and just reuse .303 British rather than trying something unique with .280 Ross. I'm really hoping DICE doesn't cheap out with this one.

The Webley (Mk VI?) will likely be an all-class, but inferior, Webley-Fosbery. Although, still superior to the S&W No.3. Which makes me constantly question why DICE insists on making all-class sidearms inferior to class-specific sidearms when not all of them actually follow this "rule." The very popular M1911 and Obrez don't have any superior class-specific counterparts. As such, this flawed balance approach needs to be ditched.

The Chauchat-Ribeyrolles is definitely interesting, though. I can imagine it being like the Support Chauchat or an automatic Autoloading 8 .25 Extended for Assault. And I'm quite sure DICE will use the 20-round variant. There's definitely some other (perhaps equally) interesting guns DICE could have picked for Assault, though. These including, but not limited to, the Thompson Annihilator I, Thompson Persuader, William Andrews .45 ACP SMG, Burton LMR (I really consider this being more suited for Assault than Support), Burgess Folding Shotgun, Winchester Model 1901, and Becker Semi-Automatic Blow-Forward Revolving Shotgun. I also have recently (maybe two or three weeks ago now) "unearthed" an experimental WW1 SMG that almost nobody knows about, but was still made by quite a prolific designer. I have a photograph (not high resolution, sadly) and some patents relating to such. Will like to eventually leak it out to the public. . .

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Thursday, January 18th 2018, 1:45pm

.


Aye. The main problem with adding new weapons to BF1 is that they have this cardridge and class based balance framework, which generally gives you a good idea of how a weapon functions without ever laying your hands on it if its using a cartridge already in the game. If you tell me "we are going to add a .303 detachable magazine fed selfloader into the game", it basically tells me about 50% of its features and gives me good indication on 40% of what remains.


Once again, I wouldn't have really thrown a frothing-at-the-mouth fit if it was any DLC OTHER than Apocalypse, the very DLC that was designated out of the gate as THE unique DLC, THE over the top DLC.

Most of the weapons I see here are weapons I feel like they feel sorry about for not adding in the main game, like the Carcano in TT

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Thursday, January 18th 2018, 5:04pm

Okay, it seems the first video on the subject has been released, and the weapon list is correct. Furthermore, all my guesses were 100% on the money, except for the chauchat which fires slower than anticipated, and the MG08/18 which, thank fuck, has been, somewhat unrealistically, been put on the higher end of the spectrum of MG08 fire rates.


The Chauchat actually seems to be worse than I predicted; 8 rounds 3 shot kill at what sounds about 450 rof. Nice gimmick weapon but thats about as far as it goes. Also, it looks like a toy weapon from first person.

The MG08/18 doesn't seem to be 450 rof, but faster (which is weird). Sound tells me its about 500-600 ish. So basically its a copy of the mg15

My Ross guess was also on the money, but it doesn't even seem to have the benefit of a straight pull and actually seems to scope out after every shot. That or the author of the video just did it from force of habit. Lol. Y tho. So its basically just a enfield clone.

And also as guessed, the Enfield 1917 was described as an "uninteresting addition and I couldn't figure out what to do with it". Yes, its literally just a glorified M1903 infantry.

The BSA seems to be an oddball. It actually seems to fire slower than the FH. However, it does have an interesting property: Though its standard irons are completely, totally fucking useless and odd looking, it is actually the only SLR that gets AA sights instead of buckhorn sights as its alternative sight. Furthermore, though the video calls the second variant the marksman variant, it has a bipod and a sniper scope.


The webley wasn't featured

I would give you guys a link to the video but it was deleted shortly after I saw it.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "colers" (Jan 18th 2018, 5:09pm)


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Thursday, January 18th 2018, 5:22pm

Wikipedia says the MG08 fires at 500-600.
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Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

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Thursday, January 18th 2018, 5:34pm

Wikipedia says the MG08 fires at 500-600.



And then other sources, like modernfirearms.net, then say its 450 across all platforms.
And Dice seemed to have agreed to that given that, well, this was what they gave to the MG08/15

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Thursday, January 18th 2018, 6:11pm

ANOTHER UPDATE: Flakfire updated the video.

The Ross rifle pretty much makes the smle marksman redundant, because, yes, the other guy actually scoped out as force of habbit. Featuring a 20% better rate of fire than the SMLE and that benefit, along with the same velocity and sweetspot, The SMLE just got taken out back and shot.

The M1917 isn't actually useless. ACTUALLY, it makes the Carcanno useless instead, boasting comparable rate of fire along with an infinite headshot range, vastly superior ironsights and a sweetspot. Wat?

CRSC has incorrect firerate shown, but the Howell seems to have the same rate of fire as the FH


Webley is exactly as expected. Fire rate looks to be very good. Good bye nr3, it was nice knowing ya.




EDIT: Welp, the BF1 website just updated

Fuck this shit. I'm out. Time to uninstall this. So, not only did they disgrace the last DLC by going against all expectations for the weapon selection, no, we are not even getting 4 actual fucking map. of the 5 maps, 2 of them will just be glorified wallpaper for the new aerial domination gamemode. What a fucking scam. The premise of apocalypse, together with what i knew ITNOTT would bring was what brought me to buy premium. This is bullshit. This is a rip-off. An unacceptable betrayal of customer trust as far as I am concerned. People were hyped as fuck as to what epic maps would make up the selection of 4, but instead they just decide to say "fuck you all, you are getting 3" and then proceed to throw in 2 aerial maps (Mind you, 2 that are ALREADY IN THE FUCKING GAME in the campaign. I'd say "Like shadow" but it isn't like shadow in the slightest, its even weaker) in order to not be legally culpable for false advertisement. This is fucking cheap and anyone trying to make excuses for this practice is factually in the wrong. Peace out

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "colers" (Jan 18th 2018, 6:47pm)


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Thursday, January 18th 2018, 6:47pm

ANOTHER UPDATE: Flakfire updated the video.

The Ross rifle pretty much makes the smle marksman redundant, because, yes, the other guy actually scoped out as force of habbit. Featuring a 20% better rate of fire than the SMLE and that benefit, along with the same velocity and sweetspot, The SMLE just got taken out back and shot.

The M1917 isn't actually useless. ACTUALLY, it makes the Carcanno useless instead, boasting comparable rate of fire along with an infinite headshot range, vastly superior ironsights and a sweetspot. Wat?

CRSC has incorrect firerate shown, but the Howell seems to have the same rate of fire as the FH


Webley is exactly as expected. Fire rate looks to be very good. Good bye nr3, it was nice knowing ya



Are you sure the Ross has a sweetspot?

Lol, the Enfield definitely does not fire at 80 RPM, nor does the Cacarno if you look at what Symthic shows.


EDIT: Never mind, I've just seen the weapon's damage graph and it does appear to have a sweetspot.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Shalan" (Jan 18th 2018, 7:27pm)