Welcome to symthic forums! We would love if you'd register!
You don't have to be expert in bit baking, everyone is more than welcome to join our community.

You are not logged in.

Hey! If this is your first visit on symthic.com, also check out our weapon damage charts.
Currently we have charts for Battlefield 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, Medal of Honor: Warfighter and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

  • "InterimAegis" started this thread

Posts: 226

Date of registration
: Mar 31st 2015

Platform: Xbox One

Reputation modifier: 7

  • Send private message

1

Monday, January 15th 2018, 1:21am

Some unfortunate news about SLRs with the TTK patch

EDIT: I figured out why this is happening - it was an artifact of discrete frame-by-frame coding NOT an issue with TTK 2.0. I have fixed the issue on my side, and I would suggest that this thread be closed.

DISCLAIMER: I want to clearly state that I support the TTK patch, and I love the way CTE plays with it implemented. Everything that follows was preliminary and has changed.

I was running the numbers to prepare for my Medic Rifle Scoring TTK Patch Edition post. Unless more changes have been made behind the scenes, I have some troubling news to share about the new TTK patch and SLRs. The SIPS buff may not quite as good as we think it is. Right now, spread and recoil both limit the effective rate of fire of SLRs but minimum spread to a slightly larger extent. With the TTK patch and the SIPS buff, recoil is now the limiting factor.

As an improvement to my algorithm, I now sample the maximum rate of fire and the nearest 4 half-tick fire rate tiers including recoil decrease with every tick. For example, if I am firing the Cei-Rigotti, my steps would be: 299, 276, 257, 239, and 224. In retail, the optimal fire rate (read: fire rate to stay at minimum spread) is one full fire rate tier lower for Optical, Factory, and Marksman variants. Again, with the Cei-Rigotti Optical and its 299 RPM that would be 257 RPM. With the TTK patch, the SIPS buff would make this a half step from a spread perspective (299 —> 276).

Unexpectedly, with the SIPS buff, I am finding that SLRs are recoil limited, not SIPS limited (good, from a game design perspective!). The issue is that the SIPS buff hasn't really improved the optimal fire rate of SLRs as we were collectively postulating on Battlefield Live and Symthic. Here are the fire rates that yield the best TTKs in a hitrater simulation for the Selbstlader 1916 Optical in 5 m increments from 5-75 m with the TTK patch:

Source code

1
[ 224.   224.   224.   224.   224.   199.   199.   199.   199.   199.   199.   199.   199.   199.   199.]


Look familiar? It's 1 full step down, just like retail. I have confirmed the same progression for the Selbstlader 1916 Optical and Marksman, the M1907 Factory (299 --> 257), the RSC Optical and Factory (163 --> 149) and the Fedorov Avtomat (449 --> 359). Basically, the optimal RoFs are still the same as they always were, just with a bit less random deviation from your aimpoint.

The range buffs are great. The decrease to standing minimum spread is great. The nerf to moving spread I don't really understand, but it's small.

SLRs will still be good, and they will FEEL better (still a higher chance to hit overall), but don't expect to be firing them faster until they get a horizontal recoil buff.

This post has been edited 12 times, last edit by "InterimAegis" (Jan 18th 2018, 3:49pm)


Posts: 3,636

Date of registration
: Mar 19th 2014

Platform: Xbox One

Location: Canada

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 16

  • Send private message

2

Monday, January 15th 2018, 1:55am

Interesting.

On a related note, the Luger 1906 is hilariously effective.
Who Enjoys, Wins

  • "InterimAegis" started this thread

Posts: 226

Date of registration
: Mar 31st 2015

Platform: Xbox One

Reputation modifier: 7

  • Send private message

3

Monday, January 15th 2018, 5:16am

Interesting.

On a related note, the Luger 1906 is hilariously effective.


Yes - notice that the weapons I looked at so far except for the Avtomat, which is balanced around full auto anyway, have high recoil. I’m hoping I get different results when I look at the Autoloading, Luger 1906, and Farquhar-Hill.

EDIT: I figured out why this is happening. I need to know whether recoil decrease is handled client side or whether it updates locally faster than the tick rate of the server.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "InterimAegis" (Jan 15th 2018, 4:20pm)


Posts: 327

Date of registration
: Jun 6th 2014

Platform: PS4

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 7

  • Send private message

4

Monday, January 15th 2018, 6:10pm

I really like the idea of them being recoil limited.

  • "InterimAegis" started this thread

Posts: 226

Date of registration
: Mar 31st 2015

Platform: Xbox One

Reputation modifier: 7

  • Send private message

5

Monday, January 15th 2018, 6:17pm

I really like the idea of them being recoil limited.


I do as well - very much so. My concern now is that a 30 Hz server might feel different from a 60 Hz server, since the spread resets at 1/60 instead of 1/30 for optical, marksman, and factory SLRs.

I just finished running a preliminary set of values. Autoloading 8 .25 Extended, Cei-Rigotti Optical, and Farquhar-Hill Optical came out as top dogs. M1907 Factory also saw a significant buff. It’s an indirect nerf to the Fedorov Avtomat (less of a range buff). Hoping to get more solid numbers on the exact changes in the current CTE build today.

Posts: 327

Date of registration
: Jun 6th 2014

Platform: PS4

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 7

  • Send private message

6

Monday, January 15th 2018, 9:56pm

Do we still not have any prediction as to when the TTK change is gonna be hitting the live game?

Posts: 293

Date of registration
: Jun 9th 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 10

  • Send private message

7

Tuesday, January 16th 2018, 8:18pm

Are we getting a Hrecoil reduction on a lot of the SLRs as well? I remember those being in the unofficial files.

  • "InterimAegis" started this thread

Posts: 226

Date of registration
: Mar 31st 2015

Platform: Xbox One

Reputation modifier: 7

  • Send private message

8

Tuesday, January 16th 2018, 9:30pm

Are we getting a Hrecoil reduction on a lot of the SLRs as well? I remember those being in the unofficial files.


I don't believe so - those were confirmed to be errors that got rolled in from the pre-TSNP recoil decrease scaling of 0.4x (vs. the current 0.8x).

Posts: 269

Date of registration
: Oct 30th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 7

  • Send private message

9

Wednesday, January 17th 2018, 5:59am

Only the RSC is getting a recoil reduction from what i saw, on cte.
RSC 1917 Horizontal Recoil 1.8 -> 1.5

RSC 1917 Vertical Recoil 2.2 -> 1.8

Posts: 548

Date of registration
: Dec 24th 2011

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 10

  • Send private message

10

Wednesday, January 17th 2018, 7:12am

I'm not surprised whatsoever, and this came as common sense to me. While the SLRs may become considerably more accurate while firing at the rate of fire cap (which is something most won't consistently be doing outside of the Cei-Rigotti, Fedorov Avtomat, and M1907 SL Sweeper), the SIPS buff only gives a very marginal increase in optimal rate of fire. And of course recoil is going to further limit that. "B-But I can counter recoil!" To an extent, but not perfectly. Recoil happens within fractions of a second, and even the best players aren't going to move their mouse/analog stick the necessary amount to completely cancel/counter said recoil (especially with the randomness of horizontal recoil). Unless by the "best" we mean people running scripts.

The RSC 1917 seems to be the only SLR to have gotten the necessary buffs to stay very competitive. Maybe the Autoloading 8 .35 also. While I get that it is perhaps a lot of work reworking animations and audio, especially when the CTE team is seemingly quite small, the SLRs really "needed" raw rate of fire buffs (which in return still buffs optimal rate of fire). This is why the RSC 1917 is going to fare pretty well against most guns. Not everything in the Medic class is getting equal treatment, despite the current retail balance of the Medic being quite solid.

As far as recoil being client-side or server-side, I wouldn't know. That'll definitely be something to ask RandomDeviation about.