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NoctyrneSAGA

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41

Wednesday, December 6th 2017, 7:01pm

Time isn't the most important factor.

In the end it still boils down to hitrate and effective damage output.

Even if it takes forever to reset to minSpread, as long as your spread is good enough then there is no problem.

The 1909 takes 0.84s to reset but that doesn't mean its TTK is effectively 0.84s.



Also, the upcoming bipod changes make this time irrelevant for the Browning which always has a bipod.
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Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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42

Wednesday, December 6th 2017, 7:18pm

Time isn't the most important factor.

In the end it still boils down to hitrate and effective damage output.

Even if it takes forever to reset to minSpread, as long as your spread is good enough then there is no problem.

The 1909 takes 0.84s to reset but that doesn't mean its TTK is effectively 0.84s.



Also, the upcoming bipod changes make this time irrelevant for the Browning which always has a bipod.



The Browning has a bipod at all times? I don't follow.

Time is very important. If I have two weapons with the same TTK and equivalent recoil patterns, and each resets spread in 10 bullets but one has twice the fire rate and half the damage, which gun do you want? I want the faster-firing weapon so that the second half of my damage output per kill isn't subject to increased spread. Each and every single time.

I am not really commenting on the TTK in that analysis. I am merely commenting on spread - nothing more, nothing less. However, an extension of that work applied to TTK would see that lower spread leads to lower effective TTK every single time. For example, that's why the Mondragon Optical beats the Mondragon Storm at all ranges in my SLR analysis from TSNP, calculated via hit probabilities using spread and recoil (see link below).

This post has been edited 6 times, last edit by "InterimAegis" (Dec 6th 2017, 8:48pm)


NoctyrneSAGA

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43

Wednesday, December 6th 2017, 9:58pm

If both versions still have 100% hitrate for the entire duration of those 10 rounds, then the time does not matter.
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Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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44

Wednesday, December 6th 2017, 11:27pm

If both versions still have 100% hitrate for the entire duration of those 10 rounds, then the time does not matter.


Yes, indeed, but this is an edge case in either the extreme limit of low spread or the limit of very close range. Given a 100% hit rate, weapon choice is trivial, no?

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Thursday, December 7th 2017, 3:14am


Time isn't the most important factor.

In the end it still boils down to hitrate and effective damage output.

Even if it takes forever to reset to minSpread, as long as your spread is good enough then there is no problem.

The 1909 takes 0.84s to reset but that doesn't mean its TTK is effectively 0.84s.



Also, the upcoming bipod changes make this time irrelevant for the Browning which always has a bipod.


How is time not the most important? Higher time to 100damage = more time of exposure = higher chance of you getting killed. Also a dead person's damage output is zero.

Consider your case of spread being good enough, it also means that the best time to 100damage = hold MB1. So the ultimate determining factor of TTK (time to 100damage) is ROF. Your example confirms that time is very important.

@InterimAegis
Yes I have looked at your ranking of SLRs and I think the individual graphs of TTK and KPR(kill per reload) are very useful in determining which weapon to use. I personally value a bit more KPR than 50%. I just cannot use a weapon where KPR is less than 2 in Battlefield. Killing multiple people in one mag in quick succession in previous BFs was really satisfying and the kill-and-reload playstyle was really not for me. I absolutely hated that BF1 separated quick TTK with 3+ KPR.

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46

Thursday, December 7th 2017, 5:48pm

Recoil scales linearly with zoom, so all you are doing is making it harder to hit your target.


Perceived recoil does, yes.

This is part of the reason I used flat 1.0x zoom on all Ironsights.


So how do you kill at distance?

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47

Thursday, December 7th 2017, 5:53pm

Say an LMG returned to minSpread in 3 shots at 600 RPM but had 2.0 total hRec.

Even if you reset quickly, your hitrate is so low you won't be getting much damage on target.

If we do a comparison with the BAR Storm and M1909 Storm, they are pretty close together.



At 50m, the M1909 is projected to kill only 6 frames slower than the BAR (not counting muzzle velocity).

M1909 needs to fire 10 shots to land the requisite 6 BTK. The BAR needs to fire 11.

While at first it may seem like the M1909 should be winning at this range, do keep in mind that the BAR has a 20 round magazine.

As with other small magazine weapons, they are slightly more lethal than their competitors with larger magazines.



At 55m, the BAR has to fire 13 rounds to land 6. The M1909 has to fire 10.

The two are now evenly matched.

A difference of 5m forces the BAR to expend 2 additional rounds.

Even if the BAR is capable of resetting faster, that does not mean much if ultimately those rounds still miss.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

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48

Thursday, December 7th 2017, 6:14pm

So how do you kill at distance?


I use a 1.5x beam reticle on Optical SLRs. Have no problems out to ~100 m.

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49

Thursday, December 7th 2017, 9:06pm

So how do you kill at distance?


I aim? As a matter of fact, I always use all 12 class presets, and as I have them setup right now literally every gun has ironsights, and it works just fine.
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50

Friday, December 8th 2017, 2:23am

Say an LMG returned to minSpread in 3 shots at 600 RPM but had 2.0 total hRec.

Even if you reset quickly, your hitrate is so low you won't be getting much damage on target.

If we do a comparison with the BAR Storm and M1909 Storm, they are pretty close together.



At 50m, the M1909 is projected to kill only 6 frames slower than the BAR (not counting muzzle velocity).

M1909 needs to fire 10 shots to land the requisite 6 BTK. The BAR needs to fire 11.

While at first it may seem like the M1909 should be winning at this range, do keep in mind that the BAR has a 20 round magazine.

As with other small magazine weapons, they are slightly more lethal than their competitors with larger magazines.



At 55m, the BAR has to fire 13 rounds to land 6. The M1909 has to fire 10.

The two are now evenly matched.

A difference of 5m forces the BAR to expend 2 additional rounds.

Even if the BAR is capable of resetting faster, that does not mean much if ultimately those rounds still miss.



The fact that the BAR has to fire 13 rounds and the M1909 has to fire 10 rounds to kill is pathetic enough.