Welcome to symthic forums! We would love if you'd register!
You don't have to be expert in bit baking, everyone is more than welcome to join our community.

You are not logged in.

Hey! If this is your first visit on symthic.com, also check out our weapon damage charts.
Currently we have charts for Battlefield 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, Medal of Honor: Warfighter and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

Posts: 3,450

Date of registration
: Mar 19th 2014

Platform: Xbox One

Location: Canada

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

  • Send private message

31

Tuesday, December 5th 2017, 4:50am

Oooo that's real interesting indeed, I wonder if the same mechanics may be applied to everything in the future. 8o
Who Enjoys, Wins

  • "InterimAegis" started this thread

Posts: 102

Date of registration
: Mar 31st 2015

Platform: Xbox One

Reputation modifier: 6

  • Send private message

32

Tuesday, December 5th 2017, 5:09am

Oooo that's real interesting indeed, I wonder if the same mechanics may be applied to everything in the future. 8o


That and the SIPS decrease on only the DLC Optical SLRs, which I donít know if I should believe. There are a lot of strange things in there, one of which is how long the M1917 MG takes to reach min spread. At first glance, it has a lower min spread, a less negative spread increase, and it appears a quite slow spread decrease (3.275 vs. 5.8 on the Benet). Either this is an error, or its spread cone will be significantly larger than other telescopics. Iíll actually do the math tomorrow if I get a chance and see if my hunch is right.

Posts: 3,450

Date of registration
: Mar 19th 2014

Platform: Xbox One

Location: Canada

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

  • Send private message

33

Tuesday, December 5th 2017, 7:14am

I'd imagine any stats involving the Turning Tides weapons here will be correct because they sort of have to be, so yeah, any investigating you can do on them would be fantastic. :thumbup:
Who Enjoys, Wins

  • "InterimAegis" started this thread

Posts: 102

Date of registration
: Mar 31st 2015

Platform: Xbox One

Reputation modifier: 6

  • Send private message

34

Tuesday, December 5th 2017, 3:58pm

Turning Tides Spread Evaluation:


Okay here is the story of the Browning 1917. As far as I know, we have historically evaluated spread per bullet fairly consistently. However, I think a slightly different method yields more practical results: spread as a function of time.

First, attached is what spread looks like per bullet number for all Support weapons, including the new Browning. Variant is coded by symbol, weapon by color. This doesn't give us that much information - we already know the Huot has the best spread profile and the suppressive variants (P14, MG15 in particular) have some of the worst.

I would argue, however, that the amount of game time required to zero in on your target is much more significant than the number of rounds required to decrease your spread. For one, your target will then be aware of you, starting the clock on winning your engagement. So let's move to the second figure, which is spread as a function of time in seconds. Now, we see that the BAR, the Parabellum 14 LW, the Huot, and the Madsen are all on the lefthand side of that downslope. They return to their base spread very quickly in game time, though through different functions - the P14 is only there because its RoF is so high that you can waste bullets to return to minimum spread very quickly, the BAR and Madsen because they are a nice combination of low spread and high RoF, and the Huot because it has best in class spread characteristics.

All of this to give you the Turning Tides takeaway: the new Browning is absolute garbage in terms of spread unless you plan on firing for longer than one full second. Instead, try the BAR, the Parabellum LW, the Huot, and the Madsen to reduce random deviation and let your LMG skill shine through.
InterimAegis has attached the following files:
  • PerB.png (416.13 kB - 12 times downloaded - latest: Dec 8th 2017, 6:53pm)
  • PerS.png (453.33 kB - 20 times downloaded - latest: Yesterday, 11:19pm)
  • PerSZoom.png (389.25 kB - 13 times downloaded - latest: Yesterday, 11:19pm)

This post has been edited 7 times, last edit by "InterimAegis" (Dec 5th 2017, 11:15pm) with the following reason: Added a zoomed plot to more clearly show the effect.


Posts: 720

Date of registration
: Sep 19th 2012

Platform: PS3

Location: Virginia, USA

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 8

  • Send private message

35

Wednesday, December 6th 2017, 12:16am

You are right. If this buff goes only to S1906 Factory or Optical I won't bother it. But Marksman variation got a 4x scope for long range and a sips of 0.125, combined with big mag and 2.37s reload, so I said it's my first chose long range semi. Unlike sniper variations with 0.2 sips, the only thing that stop me from spamming the mag was that big Hrec. I noticed sips shifts in this post, did they change marksman sips into 0.2?


I donít really understand the appeal of a 4x. You just give glint above that magnification and are completely screwed up close. Optical is by far the best SLR configuration unless you are a hip fire fiend because it also has the 0.125 SIPS.


Really? I thought the 4x variants were pretty good? Any enemy who gets close to me is getting Glocked anyways....

  • "InterimAegis" started this thread

Posts: 102

Date of registration
: Mar 31st 2015

Platform: Xbox One

Reputation modifier: 6

  • Send private message

36

Wednesday, December 6th 2017, 12:21am

You are right. If this buff goes only to S1906 Factory or Optical I won't bother it. But Marksman variation got a 4x scope for long range and a sips of 0.125, combined with big mag and 2.37s reload, so I said it's my first chose long range semi. Unlike sniper variations with 0.2 sips, the only thing that stop me from spamming the mag was that big Hrec. I noticed sips shifts in this post, did they change marksman sips into 0.2?


I donít really understand the appeal of a 4x. You just give glint above that magnification and are completely screwed up close. Optical is by far the best SLR configuration unless you are a hip fire fiend because it also has the 0.125 SIPS.


Really? I thought the 4x variants were pretty good? Any enemy who gets close to me is getting Glocked anyways....


Recoil scales linearly with zoom, so all you are doing is making it harder to hit your target.

Posts: 3,450

Date of registration
: Mar 19th 2014

Platform: Xbox One

Location: Canada

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

  • Send private message

37

Wednesday, December 6th 2017, 3:11am

Recoil scales linearly with zoom, so all you are doing is making it harder to hit your target.


Perceived recoil does, yes.

This is part of the reason I used flat 1.0x zoom on all Ironsights.
Who Enjoys, Wins

Posts: 218

Date of registration
: Jun 9th 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 10

  • Send private message

38

Wednesday, December 6th 2017, 12:29pm

Very nicely done @InterimAegis. I have always advocated for evaluating weapons based on time to 100 damage, not DPS. This shows how shit all the LMGs are in BF1 due to the spread mechanics, and I hope it is just an experiment and doesn't return in BF2018

Posts: 218

Date of registration
: Jun 9th 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 10

  • Send private message

39

Wednesday, December 6th 2017, 12:33pm

Quoted

You are right. If this buff goes only to S1906 Factory or Optical I won't bother it. But Marksman variation got a 4x scope for long range and a sips of 0.125, combined with big mag and 2.37s reload, so I said it's my first chose long range semi. Unlike sniper variations with 0.2 sips, the only thing that stop me from spamming the mag was that big Hrec. I noticed sips shifts in this post, did they change marksman sips into 0.2?


I donít really understand the appeal of a 4x. You just give glint above that magnification and are completely screwed up close. Optical is by far the best SLR configuration unless you are a hip fire fiend because it also has the 0.125 SIPS.


Really? I thought the 4x variants were pretty good? Any enemy who gets close to me is getting Glocked anyways....


Recoil scales linearly with zoom, so all you are doing is making it harder to hit your target.
I usually go with the lowest zoom I can while maintaining the ability to distinguish the targets I am trying to hit.

  • "InterimAegis" started this thread

Posts: 102

Date of registration
: Mar 31st 2015

Platform: Xbox One

Reputation modifier: 6

  • Send private message

40

Wednesday, December 6th 2017, 3:35pm

Very nicely done @InterimAegis. I have always advocated for evaluating weapons based on time to 100 damage, not DPS. This shows how shit all the LMGs are in BF1 due to the spread mechanics, and I hope it is just an experiment and doesn't return in BF2018


I think it also shows how subtly but clearly different all the 450ish RPM LMGs are. Unfortunately, it really shows how horrible the new Browning will be compared to the BAR and Madsen (and even the Perino and B-M). That big magazine comes with an outsized penalty in my opinion.

FYI my medic scoring linked in my signature is also based on time to 100 damage, average BTK, and kills per reload not DPS. It doesnít include the Avtomat or Gen. Liu, but I would expect both to suffer for different reasons (range on the FA and recoil and spread on the Gen. Liu). I also would expect the Farquhar-Hill to score quite well.