Some interesting facts about the new Turning Tides weapons

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InterimAegis

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Friday, December 1st 2017, 4:05am

Quoted from "stopbeefing"

You are right. If this buff goes only to S1906 Factory or Optical I won't bother it. But Marksman variation got a 4x scope for long range and a sips of 0.125, combined with big mag and 2.37s reload, so I said it's my first chose long range semi. Unlike sniper variations with 0.2 sips, the only thing that stop me from spamming the mag was that big Hrec. I noticed sips shifts in this post, did they change marksman sips into 0.2?

I don’t really understand the appeal of a 4x. You just give glint above that magnification and are completely screwed up close. Optical is by far the best SLR configuration unless you are a hip fire fiend because it also has the 0.125 SIPS.

———————
Medic Rifle Scoring - Apocalypse
SLR Optimal RoF Analysis - TT
LMG Spread Analysis - TT
———————
Data browser

BleedingUranium

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Friday, December 1st 2017, 5:52am

One of DICE's balance guys is quite certain these are incorrect, quite possibly something being wrong with the script-y stuff being used to extract it.

Who Enjoys, Wins

InterimAegis

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Friday, December 1st 2017, 6:28pm

Quoted from "BleedingUranium"

One of DICE's balance guys is quite certain these are incorrect, quite possibly something being wrong with the script-y stuff being used to extract it.

I hope we can get to the bottom of this. It is really hard to evaluate new weapons without hard statistics.

-------------

C96 Trench has been added to original post to keep everything in one place. It looks a little mediocre: same CQC damage model as the normal C96 (28 max, 15 min damage), but the range has been extended by ~6 m and the RoF increased by 60 RPM. The bullet velocity is 460 m/s, and it holds 40 rounds. Basically, it's a crappy A8 .25 Extended or a buffed M1903 Experimental.

TTK using salient distances and bullet velocity:

0 m: 501 ms (4 BTK)
23 m: 719 ms (5 BTK)
29 m: 899 ms (6 BTK)
35 m: 1079 ms (7 BTK)

M1903 Exp vs. C96 Trench vs. Auto 8 .25

0 m: 506 ms (4 BTK) vs 501 ms (4 BTK) vs. 337 ms (3 BTK)
18 m: 714 ms (5 BTK) vs. 540 ms (4 BTK) vs. 529 ms (4 BTK)
23 m: 893 ms (6 BTK) vs. 719 ms (5 BTK) vs. 536 ms (4 BTK)
29 m: 1080 ms (7 BTK) vs. 899 ms (6 BTK) vs. 712 ms (5 BTK)
35 m: 1257 ms (8 BTK) vs. 1079 ms (7 BTK) vs. 722 ms (5 BTK)

As it stands, I think very few people will use this weapon.

———————
Medic Rifle Scoring - Apocalypse
SLR Optimal RoF Analysis - TT
LMG Spread Analysis - TT
———————
Data browser

This post has been edited 6 times, last edit by "InterimAegis" (Dec 1st 2017, 6:57pm)

BleedingUranium

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Friday, December 1st 2017, 7:03pm

You may be underestimating just how crazy stable the Mauser Trench is.

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InterimAegis

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Friday, December 1st 2017, 8:43pm

Quoted from "BleedingUranium"

You may be underestimating just how crazy stable the Mauser Trench is.

I just looked again - SIPS is the same for all three weapons. For recoil:

C96 Trench: HRec = 0.24, VRec = 0.30, RDec = 5
Auto 8 Ext: HRec = 0.3, VRec = 0.595, RDec = 3
M1903 Exp: HRec = 0.2, VRec = 0.28, RDec = 5

Do we really think that bonus recoil and extra recoil decrease will save a player from getting shredded? Even if you hit every single shot, you need your opponent to miss to win an engagement. The Auto 8 Extended already feels ultra stable to me - it's the spread and TTK that kill it over 27 m.

———————
Medic Rifle Scoring - Apocalypse
SLR Optimal RoF Analysis - TT
LMG Spread Analysis - TT
———————
Data browser

This post has been edited 4 times, last edit by "InterimAegis" (Dec 1st 2017, 10:48pm)

LeGarcon

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Saturday, December 2nd 2017, 2:47am

I'm confused. So big stat changes are in the CTE that indicate a TTK shift is finally happening but it all might be a mistake?

NoctyrneSAGA

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Saturday, December 2nd 2017, 3:57am

Devs have stated TTK change is not in patch

Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

"Skill" may indeed be the most magical of words. Chant it well enough and any desire can be yours.

Are you a scrub?

Quoted from "blahdy"

If it flies, it dies™.

InterimAegis

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Monday, December 4th 2017, 12:55am

Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

Devs have stated TTK change is not in patch

Indeed they have, which is why it was very concerning to see those changes. Now that they seem fictitious, we should make sure we will have access to accurate stats once TT drops. Regardless, the info on the new weapons seems reasonable enough. Some look quite interesting.

———————
Medic Rifle Scoring - Apocalypse
SLR Optimal RoF Analysis - TT
LMG Spread Analysis - TT
———————
Data browser

stopbeefing

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Tuesday, December 5th 2017, 4:27am

I have found some interesting stuff in raw weapon stats.

For M1917 MG it has different values between ADSBaseSpreadIncrease and ADSMoveSpreadIncrease, other LMGs don't have this kind of mechanics, right? This will punish Moving-ADS players even more.

For C96 Trench it has a FirstShotHIPSpreadMul of 0.167 while FirstShotADSSpreadMul stays at 1.0. That means hip spread increase per shot is 0.012, and explains outstanding hip fire accuracy in the game.

JSLICE20

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Tuesday, December 5th 2017, 4:47am

Quoted from "stopbeefing"

For M1917 MG it has different values between ADSBaseSpreadIncrease and ADSMoveSpreadIncrease, other LMGs don't have this kind of mechanics, right? This will punish Moving-ADS players even more.

You would be correct. That is quite the fine observation you made there, new guy. Props.

Quoted from "stopbeefing"

For C96 Trench it has a FirstShotHIPSpreadMul of 0.167 while FirstShotADSSpreadMul stays at 1.0. That means hip spread increase per shot is 0.012, and explains outstanding hip fire accuracy in the game.

Also, another good one. I think we'll like having you around here.

To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

Source code

AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.2
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

No Slowdown Data

Source code

AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 1.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 0.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.0
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

No Auto Rotation Data

Source code

 AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

Prepare your laughbox

Quoted from "Zer0Cod3x"

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho

My "Contributions"

Gun Sway Modifiers (Hidden Attachments in Variants)
Gadget, Stationary, and Vehicle Weaponry Stats (Pre-Official)

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