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Friday, October 13th 2017, 9:45pm

Because I also enjoy being able to customize how my weapon performs. As a side note, DICE's weapon designer (aka one of the Symthic guys) was recently asked what he would want to go back and redo most out of BF1's design, and his answer was full weapon customization.

I do agree RNG battlepacks are terrible, and skins should have all been tied to kill count, with a few to other specific requirements. But skins alone aren't enough, really.


Customization that can actually make weapons good in different ways would be great. That isn't what we got in BF3/BF4. BF4 was marginally better of course.

I'd be totally on board with attachment customization that gave you different useful ways to use a weapon, but DICE has quite emphatically never been able to pull this off and they've had three shots at making it work, with the final experiment being replacing it completely with canned variants.

If you can't get something right in three tries, and BF4 was basically BF3 take-two. I don't have much confidence they'll figure it out on take 4.

Aesthetics are a much safer option, and basically would be indistinguishable in practice to the average player.

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Friday, October 13th 2017, 10:02pm

Something doesn't have to be perfect to be useful or fun.

There's no reason to remove it just because it isn't perfect or doesn't offer a massive gameplay change.

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Friday, October 13th 2017, 10:02pm

I disagree BF4 didn't work, I consider it the best concept for everyone involved.
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Friday, October 13th 2017, 11:30pm

I would say BF4 was worse than BF3.

While the BF3 HBar + FG combo was truly just overpowered, at least we did not have as much bloat as BF4 did.

And while BF4 managed to at least make 1-3 combinations good, the amount of bad choices they added completely outweighed that.

I'm all for customization so long as the only picks players can make are good picks. This is what the variants system has managed to accomplish at the cost of any sort of statistical deviation.
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With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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Saturday, October 14th 2017, 12:05am

I would say BF4 was worse than BF3.

While the BF3 HBar + FG combo was truly just overpowered, at least we did not have as much bloat as BF4 did.

And while BF4 managed to at least make 1-3 combinations good, the amount of bad choices they added completely outweighed that.

I'm all for customization so long as the only picks players can make are good picks. This is what the variants system has managed to accomplish at the cost of any sort of statistical deviation.


IMO weapon meta in BF4 was better than in BF3 simply because there were more viable weapons both within class and cross-class, however attachment meta in BF4 is way worse because of the sheer volume of bloat/useless crap.

BF3 forced use of HBar + FG, however BF4 similarly "forced" optimal combos just with more obfuscation to get to that conclusion.

BF1 variants of vehicles and universal slots are a huge step back from canned type spawns but customizable perk spots you had in BF3/BF4.

I think they can likely do customization again, but I think the carrot chasers can only be satisfied in terms of volume of content via aesthetic customizations without ruining the meta for people interested in the game and not just solider barbie dressup.

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Saturday, October 14th 2017, 12:18am

Long post ahoy, with a bit of a suggestion

I like the variants. It’s the tidiest, most understandable and balanced way to do damage output modification. It also allows creating new weapons by tuning mostly numbers (e.g. 1985 trench). Free customization of attachments that improve damage output doesn’t do any of this as successfully, as seen in Bf4. Bf1 has the most well designed system so far, but admittedly not the most fun. Some of it is probably because WW1 is a terrible setting.

It does leave some customization to be desired. But false choices shouldn’t be added just beacause of that, like tanky says, that's bad design.

What I think they should do is to separate variants and attachments into a two-layered system. Because attachments fundamentally do two different things: improve your damage output or give you new abilities. For example, the heavy barrel improves damage output, while the suppressor takes you off the minimap in bf4. They are apples and oranges really, and they’d work better separately, as one lends itself to free customization and the other not.

The ability-kind of attachments are more interesting anyway (as free choice), as they can more dramatically change up your playstyle (coming with up- and downsides you have to play around). Free choice damage modifying attachments can’t be that impactful or they are hard to balance (Bf3 HB anyone?).

I think merging Bf1 and Bf4’s systems would net a good result. Using a modern setting to illustrate because it’s so much more feasible:

You’d have variants, tuned to have the deal damage in CQB, mid range, when mobile/stationary (standing still, bipod), sustained (extra ammo) etc. then you’d choose attachments on top of that.

Variants could remain visually identical (add a plausible technical explanation, like barrel length or lightweight materials) as to not "waste" attachments, which instead could be given other properties.

For example, the laser sight could (for once) do something other than improving hipfire (leave that to a “CQB” variant), and maybe blind jets and thermal scopes. Stubby grip could improve crawling speed (cuz it’s short and handy), a sling could speed up vaulting+climbing ladders, flashlight could increase range and FoV which triggers ShowNameTag, An IR laser could blind thermal scopes, but be otherwise invisible and increase the range of a thermal scope when using it, anpther grip could speed up sprint recovery, a third could allow you to run faster for a short amount of time, scanners, flip up sights of the normal and thermal kind…. and so on. Basically putting perks/minor gadgets on your weapon in the form of attachments to create customization that is meaningful and fun. All attachments would need pros and cons though, be that inherit downsides or missing out on something else.


Side note: Bf1 already does this with the bayonet, so it's basically just expanding on that. The bayonet doesn’t affect your damage, yet brings a neat ability at the cost of a downside you can play around. Suppressors should be implemented in the same way imo as they lend themselves perfectly to this system.

On top of that, the remaining attachments could be implemented as visual customization (e.g. choose how your grip looks, color of the laser etc.).

The sight selection should be loosened up a bit too, as it's fairly intuitive to find a sight/zoom level that works for a given gun, and it's a lot down to preference too.


With such a system, there is no poor choice, because every attachment does add something to your loadout, but there’s lots of fun stuff to put on your gun (and unlock :thumbdown: ), while the variant system keeps different types of damage output nice and balanced. Attachments wouldn't directly affect weapons, but decreasing spread increase by 15% isn't that interesting anyway.

Wouldn't that be satisfactory for most parties? Except the people who have to implement it of course...

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ammo regen pls

Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

_____

When I play with it [Autoloading 8] I feel like I am batman taking out 1 after 1 baddie while they feel helpless and don't know who is talking out their mates.
Remove 3D spotting. It’s a mechanic that rewards bad eyesight.
Wanna help your team by sneaking through enemy territory to provide spawns? THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK FGT I HOPE YOU RUN OUT OF MOTION BALLS TOO EARLY TO BE SUCCESSFUL
Wanna be Javelin squad but only have two guys? BETTER NOT GET YOUR SOFLAM KILLED FGT THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK WITHOUT A SUPPORT DUDE DROPPING AMMO ON YOU EVERY 2 MINUTES
Please post your best M1916 clips Magazines *fixed*.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "potetr" (Oct 14th 2017, 12:27am)


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47

Saturday, October 14th 2017, 12:56am

snip


Good post. With regards to BF1, optic type (irons, lens sight, suppressive scope, marksman scope, sniper scope) and barrel attachment (none, bayonet, suppressor) should be freely player selectable, just like the bayonet is right now. None of these affect gunplay stats, but all immensely influence and allow for personal playstyle.

Optic type would be restricted by weapon class, so Assault for example would only get ironsights and lens sights, and a very small number of guns would be further restricted by simply not being able to mount certain optics (M1903 Exp can only have irons or lens sights, as the scopes mount over the ejection port, for example).
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Saturday, October 14th 2017, 5:11am

if i have to really give a reason why i like unlocking stuff... it's because that's a specific objective, a really depressing reason, but if i can't accomplish many or no objective at all in real life,i can do it in games, however, i also have to like what i achieve with that objective to feel rewarded when i get, idgaf about camos, but if instead of camos we got weapon models(e.g. a famas G2 skin for the felin famas we have in bf4)v well, even though that's only aesthetical, it would probably be a lot more worth it than skins as it is a lot more tangible and in general more appealing than just a fixed paint pattern.
it's ore unique.

it's depressing, but really you could say that i like hoops in games for they are very specific objectives with rewards that i'll be sure i enjoy, which i can't say the same for in real life.
n shit i usually stop playing a game once in unlock everything(though there are some exceptions obviously)
"I'm just a loot whore."


stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

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NoctyrneSAGA

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49

Saturday, October 14th 2017, 9:52am

@potter

That's kind of why I like some of these specializations that were released in BF1 compared to BF3/4.

In BF3/4 they were straight up stat boosts you'd pick automatically. That's boring and pretty uncreative. And like attachment combos, you'd basically just try to optimize your stat boosts.

Specializations like Concealed Rescue that add/change functionality are infinitely more interesting to use and there is an actual choice in what you want to pick.



Kind of reminds me of MGO3's Ability system.

Tons of stuff like change all grenades to use impact fuses or dash punch automatically attaches a Fulton Balloon.

Those were a lot cooler than "25% more explosive damage" or "Increased Fulton Balloon health" to use.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

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Sunday, October 15th 2017, 5:31am

well yeah
@potetr
that actually seems like a really good idea, however, instead of mere lighweight/lonbarrel varints of the same weapon, i'd do something like, standard m4 sopmod, sig 516 and lvoa, and have all of them fall under the same weapon's variants.
"I'm just a loot whore."


stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

link to full-size old avatar:
http://i.imgur.com/4X0321O.gif