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: Mar 5th 2017

Platform: PS4

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21

Saturday, September 9th 2017, 11:39pm

@Platypusbill

I mined the files back when the August update came out and recorded the need-to-know stats. Just ask me for any other stats that you may want to know.

Tsar Weapon Stats


Thanks!

Mosin -

  • uses same bullet as 1895 so same damage model and velocity
  • 56 RPM
So this is almost a reskin of the 1895 Infantry/Sniper except for the reload times and that the scoped variant is Marksman instead...?

Federov -
  • flat 28-19; 28, 23.5m | 19, 34.5m damage model
  • 570m/s velocity
  • 0.21 min spread
  • 0.45 Vrecoil
  • 0.4 Hrecoil

Liu -
  • same bullet as 1906, 1916, and Mondragón so same damage model and velocity
  • 0.18 min spread
  • 1.3 Vrecoil
  • 1.0 Hrecoil

Maxim -
  • same bullet as MP18 so same damage model and velocity
  • 3x FSSM
  • 0.2 Vrecoil
  • 0.16 Hrecoil
Not sure if an SMG with a TTK comparable to the slowest LMGs and SLRs is worth it; even if it has good hipfire, huge capacity and pretty much nonexistent recoil/spread increase. Speaking of which, if it follows the same pattern as the MP18- does the Optical only have x2 SIPS FSSM?


Seems a bit pointless to have the accuracy to hit enemies at medium range whilst still being limited by the horrible damage drop-off and velocity of pistol rounds, but it might be better in practice than on paper. Unlike the M1903 Exp, it at least has good hipfire and a full auto mode, so it doesn't necessitate furious clicking to kill your enemies.


1900 (12g) -
  • 299 RPM
  • 2.25 pellet dispersion
  • 1.6 SIPS
  • 6x SDEC
  • 30 Vrecoil (HA!)

1900 (Slug) -
  • uses same bullet as M10 Slug so same damage model and velocity
  • 0.24 min spread
  • 0.3 SIPS
  • 9x SDEC

Perino -
  • 23-15 from 11m-46.35m; 23, 11m | 20.84, 29m | 20, 30m | 17.37, 37m | 16.67, 38m | 15, 46.35m damage model
  • 820m/s velocity
  • 450 RPM
  • 0.21 min spread
  • -6 FSSM
  • 0.28 Vrecoil
  • 0.24 Hrecoil

MG14 -
  • uses same bullet as MG15 so same damage model and velocity
  • 0.18 min spread
  • -7 FSSM
  • 0.38 Vrecoil
  • 1.6 Hrecoil
O_O that Hrecoil. The MG15 already has a noticeable wide but flat spray pattern when you look at the tracers.


And that's it.

Jk. Here's the sidearms.

Nagant Revolver -
  • 40-23 from 14m-30.06m; 40, 14m | 34.73, 21m | 33.34, 22m | 26.05, 27m | 25, 28m | 23, 30.06m damage model
  • 335m/s velocity
  • 199 RPM
  • 0.24 min spread
  • 0.8 hip spread
Looking at these stats, it seems the Nagant is a straight downgrade from the Mars? Same damage model, same RoF whilst being vastly inferior in other stats (velocity, accuracy, capacity reload time). I presume it has low recoil or something else going for it. But even then, it's hard to justify trading the ease of use of typical semi-autos for a bit more range, and the Nagant is also tied with the Mars/C96/P08 for the worst TTK.


Obrez -
  • 100-45 from 10m-35m; 100, 10m | 66.67, 25m | 55.56, 30m | 50, 32m | 45, 35m damage model
  • 390m/s velocity
  • 51 RPM
  • 0.4 min spread
  • 0.8 hip spread
My opinion:

Maxim: A hellriegel for those who find the hellriegel distasteful. It has pretty consistent performance and feels a lot more accurate than the riegel and the mp18. Excellent performance at the far end of the 9mm max damage range, where the MP18 begin to miss but this thing still consistently hits. Also good if you really, REALLY need sustained firepower as assault, given that this thing can shoot for days.

1900: A somewhat gimmick weapon; basically a peek-a-boo biased versino of the A10. Don't bother using the burst fire on it because it has roughly 10 degrees of recoil making the feature completely obsolete given that the only range at which you will conceivably hit both targets is the same range a single shot will kill them. Fun weapon to have, but the burst fire should be reworked to function in a single frame so it isn't affected by the recoil and actually works as intended.

Interesting, I figured it would be implemented as both shots being fired at the same time with no recoil in between.

Firing two slugs near-instantly should at least reduce the risk of the enemy surviving because he was just outside the 1BTK kill range or because the forearms got in the way or whatever.

I'd imagine that firing both barrels with the Factory version is useful at a range of ~20m, where a one-shot kill isn't 100% reliable but the recoil isn't enough of a detriment to make two separate shots the better option?

Fedorav: Great aggro weapon. Basically a 1907 but less punishing for missing a shot. Prepare to see this weapon a lot. Only gun in the medic class that actually really benefits from full-auto.

Lui: The factory is pretty shit but the storm is a great gun to dump people with at mid-range. Essentially a Autoloader/selbstlader for people who hate managing recoil on semi's. Actually kinda like it myself. Used to have a straight pull fire mode gimmick but this was removed because Dice couldn't figure out how to make it work properly.

The Storm preset gives -25% Hrecoil and Vrecoil IIRC, if so it has basically the same Vrecoil as the 1906 with much higher Hrecoil. 6 shots instead of 5 should make it siginificantly more forgiving, though.

Parabellum: Long-range chainsaw. Chews through everything but has no use at enemies past 30m without a bipod deployed. Getting the telescopic variant is also the best way to get the low-weight variant, because this thing annihilates aircraft.

Perino: Basically a straight upgrade from the Lewis Suppressive if you actually hate the scope the lewis has. Literally not an LMG.

Mosin: Basically a better Russian 1895, featuring the most consistent reloads in the class aside from the M95, a more pleasant ironsight and a scope without glint. For all your cheeki breeki needs. No, really, this is just a 1895 without unnecessarily long pre and post reload delays.

Vetterli: Borderline ghetto shotgun territory, one of the best aggro-scout rifles. a stone toss away from being a straight upgrade to the Martini. Literally the only sniper in the game that benefits from a radium sight.

Nagant revolver: Literally just an all-class Mars. and this might just be my gut feeling but this gun has the best hipfire out of all side-arms; you literally don't have to aim for 30m.

The stats say it's got 0.8 hip spread. All the previous handguns have 0.8 stationary/1.2 moving hip spread and I would assume that it's the same for the Nagant, though different hipfire stats would be useful for differentiating the various pistols.

Obrez: Best handgun ever and literally a ghetto shotgun. 10/10 get this one first

My suggested unlock orders?

In order of utility: Fedorev, Parabellum, Obrez, 1900, Nagant, Vetterli, Maxim, Mosin, Perino, Lui

In order of uniqueness: Obrez, 1900, vetterli, nagant, fedorev, perino, parabellum, maxim, Lui, Mosin

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: Dec 26th 2015

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22

Sunday, September 10th 2017, 7:42am

Go for the 1900 shotguns - both of them, and the Obrez
Already have +100 kills on the slug variant, and I got my first triple kill with the double shot. (Double headshot with first slug and finishing off someone hopping over a wall on Suez TDM) For the factory version, the double shot absolutely wrecks single targets up close. Pair it with a pocket pistol in case you miss the center of mass and you're golden.
Maxim SMG - Didn't really see too much difference from the Hellriegel here.
The Perino LW is easily my new favorite LMG. I dig the quick partial reloads. (I've been trying to shoot down planes with this because of its quick reload, but no joy.)
The Nagant revolver doesn't stand out that much, but it's a decent secondary.
Obrez / sawed off Mosin-Nagant feels weird to use, but I love it. 1 hit headshots with a pistol feel overpowered, but then again, it's a technically a rifle.
Mosin-Nagant ironsights are nice, but it's essentially a Russian 1895 with a marksman version.
Vetterli Vitali - Definitely a must have for aggressive scout. I really enjoy the bolt action on it too. Long range sniping isn't easy with this. Low muzzle velocity makes it difficult to hit those long range shots at moving targets. (Radium sights > iron sights)
General Lui rifle feels like the Selbstlader 1906, but with a bit more recoil and one extra round.
Federov - Ehh... As an automatic, it feels more like a SMG with a semi auto mode rather than an automatic SLR. Excels in close combat, not so good at mid range. Haven't tried out optical yet, but I'd imagine that it's a bit better at range. I still prefer the Autoloading 8 .35 factory.
I haven't unlocked all variants of every weapon, but I've tried almost every new one. (Haven't unlocked the MG14/17 yet to try it out)
I've been going for plane kills with LMGs whenever I'm on CQ, but no joy. If only I could join that anti-air squad of supports again and tear apart whatever comes at us... Seriously, five LMGs accurately shooting at a bomber can bring one down pretty quickly.
I love the math behind the statistics
It's possible to find me online at almost any given time, due to the fact that my schedule is hectic and rather non-existent.

Who needs sleep anyways?
(PC/PS4 gamer)

Various bf4 spreadsheets: (nothing special, just raw data from the Symthic website put into a spreadsheet to analyze all values at once)

Spoiler Spoiler


General Weapon spreadsheet:
BF4_Weapons_enhanced_UPDATED_2016
Soldier Equipment:
BF4_Gadget_Damage
Interactive Damage Table
bf4_dmg_at_range - Google Sheets
Unsuppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Charts
bf4_sniper_guide
Suppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Charts
Suppressed bf4_sniper_guide
More user friendly Unsuppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Chart
Friendlier Sniper rifle Bullet Drop Chart
More user friendly Suppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Chart
Friendlier Suppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Chart

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: Dec 8th 2013

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23

Sunday, September 10th 2017, 9:31am

I went with the Federov Optical.

Short take: It's an M1907 Sweeper with Optical Sight and SIPS buff in ADS instead of Hipfire.

Assignment: Not a huge fan. The M1916's up-to-2.5x Optical Sight is not precise enough for its inherent ADS accuracy value for long range work... and then its RoF-DPS and Hipfire are terribad for close-mid. As for C96, here is a scenario that happened to me quite a few times.... I run into an Assault, so I pull out the C96 to at least have some sort of a chance. I shoot 8 rounds at him, got some hitmarkers, but did not get the kill. He shotguns / SMGs me down. Then, I get revived. Now I have 2 rounds in my C96, which can only be single-loaded, and my "backup" is a M1916. As much as I know how improper it is, that is when I feel like I might as well skip the revive.

Actual usage: Not really useable at mid-long despite what I expect to be "okay" ADS Not Moving spread, which I assume is equal to Cei-Rigotti Optical, due to H-Recoil, Velocity and pea-shooter Damage. It is decent in close-mid, but then due to the recent Medic Rifle "Factory" SIPS buffs, you can probably do similar work with the Trench variant even in ADS.

Suggestion: Go for the Federov Trench, which suits its base stats better. The Assignment to acquire that also makes more sense, gameplay wise, and thus can be done much more naturally.

Getting kills with the C-R Trench also prepares you better for making use of the Federov later, since they are in the same "class." I started on it when I was still missing C96 kills (switched the M1916 Optical with C-R Trench), and found it perfectly useable in close-mid even in ADS, due to now-0.2 ADS SIPS.

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: Mar 4th 2017

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24

Wednesday, September 13th 2017, 8:51pm

An update: the 14/17 suppresssive is absolutely filthy and an easy unlock. I'd never done vehicle repair and was amazed how easy it is. Just hop in a heavy tank (better if you're driving), jump out & repair when damaged. It look two rounds of Conquest for the 50 repairs and two of FL to get the Lewis gun kills.

I'm curious what the LW can do that the suppressive won't. Everyone seems focused on the LW (especially the whiners over at BF Forums), but unlocking the suppressive is easy greasy.

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: Jun 21st 2012

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25

Wednesday, September 13th 2017, 10:04pm

Assignment: Not a huge fan. The M1916's up-to-2.5x Optical Sight is not precise enough for its inherent ADS accuracy value for long range work... and then its RoF-DPS and Hipfire are terribad for close-mid. As for C96, here is a scenario that happened to me quite a few times.... I run into an Assault, so I pull out the C96 to at least have some sort of a chance. I shoot 8 rounds at him, got some hitmarkers, but did not get the kill. He shotguns / SMGs me down. Then, I get revived. Now I have 2 rounds in my C96, which can only be single-loaded, and my "backup" is a M1916. As much as I know how improper it is, that is when I feel like I might as well skip the revive.

Actual usage: Not really useable at mid-long despite what I expect to be "okay" ADS Not Moving spread, which I assume is equal to Cei-Rigotti Optical, due to H-Recoil, Velocity and pea-shooter Damage. It is decent in close-mid, but then due to the recent Medic Rifle "Factory" SIPS buffs, you can probably do similar work with the Trench variant even in ADS.

Suggestion: Go for the Federov Trench, which suits its base stats better. The Assignment to acquire that also makes more sense, gameplay wise, and thus can be done much more naturally.
Well, M1916 after latest SLRs rebalance now has a noticeable Hrec for a large magazine with normal reloading. Very bad combo: you can't spamfire(useless large magazine), bad ROF("GG" against anything except Kolibri in CQB) and Mondragon seems plain better. But 50 kills isn't a 50 headshots or other more difficult things(remember the first appearance of TSAR weapons in CTE, there was an assighment "kill 15 medics with M1903 Experimental" - that's the worst scenerio for M1903 Exp.)
C96... Well, it has a very nice long range stats... but without any serious damage like Mars and a long-range pistol for medic who already has good weapons for mid and long ranges? My most kills from it was a finishing enemies after hitting them twice from SLRs - that's one of the most stupid things I've done aside from dance-baiting wounded enemies on Tripwire-HE 15 freakin' times.
I like Fyodorov Optical because I'm a crazy Russian that always play drunk and drinking vodka 24/7 of it's BF4-style full auto. Even with low damage per shot you are less affected by suppression and flinch. Also large magazine with low Hrec compensates average muzzle velocity very well. It's not like M1907 which is a complete trash at anything past ~30m due to it's huge Hrec.
Sorry for my bad english - it's not my native language and I have difficulties with acquiring speaking/writing practice in my country. If I accidently insult you or say something wrong - I'm sorry, you can feel free to correct me.

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26

Sunday, September 17th 2017, 1:00pm

So I'm still back and forth between the Low Weight and the Defensive Perinos. They feel so similar that their differences are probably mostly academic, but there are a few numbers that I'm not clear on.

BF1: | BF1 Multi-Weapon Comparison | Symthic

ADS - First shot spread multiplier
Spread increase per shot
Spread Decrease

I'm not sure how important "spread decrease" is, unless you like burst firing. The other two I'm unclear on, the negative numbers combining with other negative numbers hurt my brain.


If anyone could explain the real-world differences here (if any), I'd be much obliged.

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27

Sunday, September 17th 2017, 1:47pm

So I'm still back and forth between the Low Weight and the Defensive Perinos. They feel so similar that their differences are probably mostly academic, but there are a few numbers that I'm not clear on.

BF1: | BF1 Multi-Weapon Comparison | Symthic

ADS - First shot spread multiplier
Spread increase per shot
Spread Decrease

I'm not sure how important "spread decrease" is, unless you like burst firing. The other two I'm unclear on, the negative numbers combining with other negative numbers hurt my brain.


If anyone could explain the real-world differences here (if any), I'd be much obliged.
The Defensive has a -0,085 spread increase and a -6x first shot multiplier. The Low Weight has a -0,102 spread increase and a -5x first shot multiplier. When you multiply the spread increase and the multiplier, both of them result in +0,51 degrees of spread for the next shot (because multiplying two negative values gives a positive result).

After this, each following shot is subject to spread increase. But unlike SMGs, LMGs reduce their spread instead of increasing it, because the spread increase is negative.

The Defensive requires a further 6 shots to get back to the base accuracy, while the Low Weight only needs 5. What this means is that the first and second shots are equally accurate, but the LW regains its accuracy slightly faster when you start shooting.

EDIT: here is a visual demonstration: https://i.imgur.com/qUFBlD7.png

The spread is accurately scaled but this does not take into account horizontal recoil, which essentially makes the spread pill-shaped (due to the circle being dragged left and right). On the MG14 this is very noticeable because it has absurd horizontal recoil, while the Huot's spread area is almost perfectly circular because it has virtually none: https://i.imgur.com/tKrW0pN.png

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "Platypusbill" (Sep 17th 2017, 2:17pm)


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28

Sunday, September 17th 2017, 6:30pm

In practical terms, I project that in order to down 2x 100hp targets, and then recover....

10m Hipfire Not Moving

Perino Model 1908 Low Weight: 4.516666667s
vs.
Perino Model 1908 Defensive: 4.783333333s

Parabellum MG14 Low Weight: 3.066666667s
vs.
Parabellum MG14 Suppressive: 3.25s

10m Hipfire Moving

Perino Model 1908 Low Weight: 8.366666667s
vs.
Perino Model 1908 Defensive: 13.4s

Parabellum MG14 Low Weight: 7.2s
vs.
Parabellum MG14 Suppressive: 14.03333333s

30m ADS Moving

Perino Model 1908 Low Weight: 5.583333333s
vs.
Perino Model 1908 Defensive: 5.583333333s

Parabellum MG14 Low Weight: 3.766666667s
vs.
Parabellum MG14 Suppressive: 4.116666667s

50m ADS Not Moving

Perino Model 1908 Low Weight: 2.383333333s
vs.
Perino Model 1908 Defensive: 2.65s

Parabellum MG14 Low Weight: 1.533333333s
vs.
Parabellum MG14 Suppressive: 1.533333333s

-----

In exchange for worse damage output while firing, +1 bullet needed to return to min-Spread, 2x slower pace if you need to tap-fire, and worse Recoil Recovery once you're done shooting, you get... "better" sights.

You decide if that alone is worth it. For me? If I need those sights, I can get them + other benefits with Telescopic / Optical.

With previous Defensive (Hellriegel) and Suppressive (Lewis, MG15), you also get 2x ammo capacity. Not so here! The sights are all you get, as far as I can tell.

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29

Monday, September 18th 2017, 4:45am

Thanks guys! Will stop using the Defensive until DICE gives it a reason to exist.


@Veritable you have the Parabellum killing faster at 50m than the Perino? I'm assuming that's on the bipod?

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30

Monday, September 18th 2017, 10:07pm

you have the Parabellum killing faster at 50m than the Perino? I'm assuming that's on the bipod?

Off-bipod, but I also am not accounting for H-Recoil there, just Spread. So since the Spread values are not HUGELY different, then it is no surprise that the gun with higher RPM and higher Dmg per hit wins.

Expected Spread-only 10RB damages, 50m ADS Not Moving: MG14 LW - 124.492829 vs. Perino LW - 117.780006

Add 700RPM vs. 450RPM (56% higher) to that, that is to be expected.

The reasons why I discarded H-Recoil from my Hitrates are, #1 I don't 100% trust the current Hitrater with how it deals with H-Recoil; #2 I decided to let Google Sheets to calculate the Hitrates for me, so every update / addition I just need to plug in Spread and SIPS values; and #3 I figured that since Spread is invisible but Recoil is shown in all its glory, the shooter will know to stop shooting when the H-Recoil gets totally out of hand.

I do include H-Recoil separately, though, so if I am accounting for everything, I tank them as thus:

  1. Parabellum MG14 Low Weight (DLC2) | 419/1000 | 49/108
  2. Perino Model 1908 Low Weight (DLC2) | 415/1000 | 54/108
  3. Perino Model 1908 Defensive (DLC2) | 388/1000 | 74/108
  4. Parabellum MG14 Suppressive (DLC2) | 377/1000 | 81/108