Welcome to symthic forums! We would love if you'd register!
You don't have to be expert in bit baking, everyone is more than welcome to join our community.

You are not logged in.

Hey! If this is your first visit on symthic.com, also check out our weapon damage charts.
Currently we have charts for Battlefield 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, Medal of Honor: Warfighter and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

Posts: 18

Date of registration
: Apr 5th 2017

Platform: Xbox One

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 1

  • Send private message

71

Wednesday, September 6th 2017, 6:29pm

Looks like we actually have a viable alternative to a RoF buff for SLRs. I have to admit I'm honestly surprised, I wasn't very confident something else would really work.
I like what was suggested there. The only thing I would want if that is the route we go, is more Auto Revolver style ttk options. I could see allot of medics gravitating to that as there sidearm of choice since the other pistols wont be as viable against the buffed MP18 usage.

Posts: 1,840

Date of registration
: Jan 12th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 13

  • Send private message

72

Wednesday, September 6th 2017, 6:42pm

A bunch of the SLRs are effectively clamped to "close range". Those weapons absolutely should be able to compete with other "close range" weapons because the medic class is more than just a syringe spammer, and it needs to be able to kill in CQB in order to effectively use the syringe in the first place.

They are opening up the range of those SLRs a little bit with current patch, but slashing their relevance at the most statistically relevant ranges, and ranges syringe spammers cannot avoid while using said syringe.

It would be fine for the SLRs dominated mid range in theory but the mid range barely exists in battlefield and you have to content with the LMGs, and then just a bit further the BAs.

"Long range" is simply not relevant if you're playing to win, we need to stop pretending that "mid to long range" buffs can compensate for shorter ranges where all the killing and flag capturing actually happens. Weapons should be balanced around the actual meta, or in creating new meta. Not pretending the game is something it isn't.


Did you play M1907SL/.25 at launch? A lot of people did.

Launch automatico was way worse than anything in the patch. Calm down.

Also, as someone with 8K Model 8 .35 kills, I'd take the range buff over an RoF buff any day of the week.


I did. It was not a great experience.

I am calm. Your post here: Combatting Fake News: the state of Medic : battlefield_live

That was previously linked as well says basically the same thing I did. Namely that medic is going to suck 0-12m more than before.

What your suggestion largely ignores is that most of the infantry killing happens 0-12m.

Anything that doesn't give medic some sort of option to compete well at that range is a bad suggestion because of the way BF1 engagement meta works.

I don't want 70m performance because it doesn't help me keep assaults alive. I want 0-20m performance so that I can fight with the assaults. The whole point of having a range of "niched" guns is that you can play however you want and adding some ranged performance is a fine suggestion but the 0-20m shouldn't be deprecated in any balance changes because of how important it is.

Posts: 3,247

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

Reputation modifier: 15

  • Send private message

73

Wednesday, September 6th 2017, 8:09pm

First of all, most of the SLR killing absolutely doesn't happen within 12m, that's just an idiotic thing to say.

So based on this close range killing metric, should ALL weapons just be balanced for a max of 12m? Hell-to-the-no, that is absolutely retarded. You don't balance the fucking game around its stupid metas. Metas are a result of the combination of game balance and mechanics; mechanics and balancing produce metas, not the opposite. With new balancing comes new metas. Adapt.

SLRs will perform exactly the same as they do outside of 12m where MGs and SMGs lose their DPS buff. Literally nothing changes outside of 12 measly meters until again at the 35m mark.

You know why most kills happen at close range? Because most of the players contributing to that statistic are casual; they don't understand spread mechanics and their aim is no good. You know what shooting style is most conducive to close range? Skill devoid magdumping, what crappy, casual players are best at because spread has minimal impact.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.2
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

No Slowdown Data

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 1.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 0.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.0
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0


No Auto Rotation Data

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
 AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


VincentNZ

Holy War? No Thanks.

(2,088)

Posts: 2,574

Date of registration
: Jul 25th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 14

  • Send private message

74

Wednesday, September 6th 2017, 8:19pm

That is all nice and certainly needed to put a bit of fun back into the game, but I am largely on tankmayvin's side here. The buffs sound great for the SLRs especially for the .35 on paper, but it does not represent in one bit the truth of BF1 engagements.

In BF4 they acknowledged that most engagements happen within a certain range that is rather close and made EVERY class work within that engagement distance. And these engagement distances were rather generous as well. BF1 took engagements to a whole new level with all those fancy houses on Suez, hard chokepoints on Argonne and basically every flag being a clusterfuck with 64 players competing within a very confined area. Tankmayvin's 0-12 is far from being an assumption.
If you want to play medic and be with the Assaults in the thick of the battle, you will need some options to counter the SMGs and Shotguns. That goes for all classes, though.

The patch might have achieved some goals, like being able to kill two guys with one mag, but still many issues remain unsolved after a year. The map design is still shit, you still have no clear paths, you still have either full open field, or extreme close quarters, the environments are bland. The visibility is pisspoor, you are still fighting brown, grey or blue guys in a brown, grey or blue environment, with grey ironsights. If you use an optical sight you have scope sway, visual recoil to cope with and you still have to deal with the huge discrepancy between recoil and spread, especially when moving.

Posts: 1,840

Date of registration
: Jan 12th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 13

  • Send private message

75

Wednesday, September 6th 2017, 8:32pm

First of all, most of the SLR killing absolutely doesn't happen within 12m, that's just an idiotic thing to say.

So based on this close range killing metric, should ALL weapons just be balanced for a max of 12m? Hell-to-the-no, that is absolutely retarded. You don't balance the fucking game around its stupid metas. Metas are a result of the combination of game balance and mechanics; mechanics and balancing produce metas, not the opposite. With new balancing comes new metas. Adapt.

SLRs will perform exactly the same as they do outside of 12m where MGs and SMGs lose their DPS buff. Literally nothing changes outside of 12 measly meters until again at the 35m mark.

You know why most kills happen at close range? Because most of the players contributing to that statistic are casual; they don't understand spread mechanics and their aim is no good. You know what shooting style is most conducive to close range? Skill devoid magdumping, what crappy, casual players are best at because spread has minimal impact.


You have no idea what you're talking about:

Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
   Class   Mean   Med  75th  90th
 Sidearm:   9.0   7.0  11.8  17.4
Vehicler:  11.0   8.2  13.1  22.4
 Assault:  11.4   8.9  14.8  22.0
 Support:  23.1  16.4  30.2  51.0
   Medic:  28.2  19.3  36.9  60.8
 Pickups:  52.3  14.8  50.1 176.5
   Recon:  68.4  54.2  88.6 140.7


From Miffs range post. The 0-20m range dominates all classes kill counts save recon BAs(no surprise there). Median is 19.3m. Mean is a measly 28m and that accounts for all the wanna-be snipers pushing their Mondragons and 1916s to the limit.

You might actually try reading my post again, because in your process of ranting and getting spittle everywhere you missed the point. The point was that medic has a few SLRs clearly designed around CQB, and up until now exclusively CQB. Pushing their ranged capability a bit more is irrelevant compared to their sub 20 m performance because sub 20m performance is what you want both from those guns and for your average engagement.

The fact that you have a bunch of weapons means you can have good weapons at every range if you want. It makes zero sense to nerf close range weapons at close range and then "compromise" by making them better at longer ranges because you're still trading down in capabilities based purely on statistical relevance.

That really has no impact on the viability of medium and long range weapons. You can deliberately force yourself to fight further back if you want, what I'm talking about is hurting the CQB ability of weapons designed specifically around CQB.

Ranting that the ranges are short because people aren't getting good is what is idiotic here. Ranges are mostly short because flags condense sight ranges to <50 m, and generally much lower. If you want to get a high score you want to spend basically zero time in the no-man lands between flags both because of density of enemies you can kill, teamates you can help and all of the flag related points

Even vehicles fight at pretty short ranges because sitting away from flags guarantees your relevance is low.

BF has always been a fairly close range focused game for the relevant majority of engagements because of the flag mechanic. Might as well accept that is the way it is.

Posts: 95

Date of registration
: Mar 4th 2017

Platform: PS4

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 2

  • Send private message

76

Wednesday, September 6th 2017, 9:31pm

I wouldn't be so quick to coronate the BAR as "God" gum:
At max damage, the DPS of the Madsen will only be 5% less than the BAR, vs the current 10%. And still with a 50% larger magazine.
BAR Telescopic. Madsen doesn't have any similar variants. BAR Telescopic is a BEAST already, that is good at all ranges. On bipod it's a Death Star's laser.



Yeah, well, that's apples to oranges.

I had several hundred kills with the BAR telescopic, until I decided getting prone with an LMG more than a few seconds is a great way to get sniped or lose your dog tags. Also at range (say, Monte Grappa). You've run a mag dry and someone with a Lewis or MG15 suppressive is just getting warmed up to walk his fire on to you as you're reloading.

I'm not bashing the BART. It's great for picking out enemies through smoke, gas, etc, or when they blend with the background, I just prefer storm variants. The new damage model closes the gap between the BAR & Madsen a bit.

This post by "Shalan" (Wednesday, September 6th 2017, 9:37pm) has been deleted by the author himself (Wednesday, September 6th 2017, 9:42pm)

Posts: 4

Date of registration
: Sep 3rd 2017

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 1

  • Send private message

78

Wednesday, September 6th 2017, 10:22pm

I wouldn't be so quick to coronate the BAR as "God" gum:
At max damage, the DPS of the Madsen will only be 5% less than the BAR, vs the current 10%. And still with a 50% larger magazine.
BAR Telescopic. Madsen doesn't have any similar variants. BAR Telescopic is a BEAST already, that is good at all ranges. On bipod it's a Death Star's laser.



Yeah, well, that's apples to oranges.

I had several hundred kills with the BAR telescopic, until I decided getting prone with an LMG more than a few seconds is a great way to get sniped or lose your dog tags. Also at range (say, Monte Grappa). You've run a mag dry and someone with a Lewis or MG15 suppressive is just getting warmed up to walk his fire on to you as you're reloading.

I'm not bashing the BART. It's great for picking out enemies through smoke, gas, etc, or when they blend with the background, I just prefer storm variants. The new damage model closes the gap between the BAR & Madsen a bit.
You don't need to get prone to deploy bipod. Use windows/damaged doors/rocks/walls/anything. I wouldn't use the telescopic variant because of its scope though. Also it's longer to ADS.


And same feeling. Storm variant are so strong, I don't feel it's worth using anything else for mid/long range fights. That's why I use the trench version of the BAR for close combat. (before hipfire accuracy nerf)

  • "BleedingUranium" started this thread

Posts: 3,389

Date of registration
: Mar 19th 2014

Platform: Xbox One

Location: Canada

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

  • Send private message

79

Wednesday, September 6th 2017, 10:44pm

Not being optimal sub-15m is perfectly fine if they actually outrange SMGs as substantially as they would with these changes. Pistols are fantastic in BF1, and though they should also get a buff, would still be viable without one, so you can always use it as your primary when up close.

Edit: I replied from the bottom of the last page not realizing there was one more. The "all fights happen up close" argument is awful for so many reasons.
Who has fun, wins.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "BleedingUranium" (Sep 6th 2017, 10:54pm)


Posts: 1,840

Date of registration
: Jan 12th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 13

  • Send private message

80

Wednesday, September 6th 2017, 11:21pm

Not being optimal sub-15m is perfectly fine if they actually outrange SMGs as substantially as they would with these changes. Pistols are fantastic in BF1, and though they should also get a buff, would still be viable without one, so you can always use it as your primary when up close.

Edit: I replied from the bottom of the last page not realizing there was one more. The "all fights happen up close" argument is awful for so many reasons.


Most used weapons are generally the ones that do well < 20m.

Maybe the player base isn't as stupid as everyone here seems to think.

Not being just as competitive sub 20m or even sub 15m is not fine for close range weapons if you want to do something like oh, contest a flag. You can chose not to be competitive close range by using a weapon that isn't designed for close range and then playing accordingly. You can't say "this close range weapon is fine if it doesn't perform competitive at close range because it performs well beyond close range" while trying to play close range. By definition that isn't a close range weapon anymore.

Recon has an absolute shit pseudo-smg and guess what, no one uses it. Weapons designed for specific roles should be competitive at those roles otherwise they are just placeholders to fill the N+1 gun false choice.

Obviously the changes aren't hitting the SLRs to the point where they suck that bad, but I question the wisdom of moving back towards the paradigm of "don't fight assaults <12" without an assault kit unless the other guy is worse than you.

I don't understand how people can't grasp this: "vast bulk of fights happen up close" is not an "argument", it is a objective reality that has held true statistically for several titles.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "tankmayvin" (Sep 6th 2017, 11:30pm)