Welcome to symthic forums! We would love if you'd register!
You don't have to be expert in bit baking, everyone is more than welcome to join our community.

You are not logged in.

Hey! If this is your first visit on symthic.com, also check out our weapon damage charts.
Currently we have charts for Battlefield 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, Medal of Honor: Warfighter and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

  • "BleedingUranium" started this thread

Posts: 3,429

Date of registration
: Mar 19th 2014

Platform: Xbox One

Location: Canada

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

  • Send private message

1

Monday, July 31st 2017, 11:16pm

A look at the classic, BF4-style vehicle spawn system for BF1

Or rather, something similar. (Also posted this on the CTE Reddit.)

Since BF1 introduced the "pick anything you want" vehicle spawn system we've seen very few positives, and a whole of problems. From massive overuse of the A7V, to airspace being filled with either nothing but Attack Planes not fighting each other to farm infantry or all Fighters that are entirely irrelevant to the ground, to camping Arty Trucks, to types and variants that almost never get picked either because they're underpowered compared to other choices or the enemy team stacking three A7Vs simply makes any other selection irrelevant, there are plenty of problems with this system.



Planes should be restricted by type, with each map having a set number of each type of plane; the Ilya Muromets would be available anywhere regular Bombers are.

Tanks should be grouped slightly more generally, split into Heavy Armour (A7V, Mark V, St. Chamond) and Light Armour (FT-17, Arty Truck, Putilov-Garford). I had originally split them more, but ultimately that proved rather awkward and unnecessary; this split should deal with a lot of the balance and usage issues that currently plague BF1 tanks, without being overly restricting.

There are a lot of factors that go into making a concept like this (role, comparison to other planes/tanks, AA/AT guns on map, map design, behemoth(s), factions involved, what other maps would have for vehicles, and so on) so if anything seems odd or unexpected I can probably give an explanation, I put a few hours into this. This would also allow for adjustments and rebalance to certain vehicles. Keep in mind this is for Conquest, and naturally there's room for adjustment, this is just a proof of concept.



* Fao Fortress - Heavy Armour x1 / Bomber x2
* Suez - Light Armour x1
* Sinai Desert - Light Armour x1 / Heavy Armour x1 / Fighter x1 / Attack Plane x2 / Bomber x1
* St Quentin Scar - Light Armour x1 / Heavy Armour x1 / Fighter x1 / Attack Plane x1 / Bomber x1
* Amiens - Light Armour x1 / Heavy Armour x1
* Giant's Shadow - Light Armour x2 / Fighter x1 / Attack Plane x1
* Ballroom Blitz - Light Armour x1 / Heavy Armour x1 / Attack Plane x1 / Bomber x1
* Monte Grappa - Light Armour x3 / Fighter x2 / Bomber x2
* Empire's Edge - Heavy Armour x2 / Fighter x1 / Attack Plane x1 / Bomber x2


* Nivelle Nights - Heavy Armour x1
* Prise De Tahure - Light Armour x1
* Soissons - Light Armour x2 / Heavy Armour x2 / Bomber x2
* Rupture - Light Armour x1 / Heavy Armour x1 / Fighter x1 / Attack Plane x1


* Russian maps aren't quite revealed enough to be completely sure of these, but this is a preliminary list:
* Lupkow Pass - Bomber x1 (or Attack Plane x1)
* Brusilov Keep - Light Armour x1
* Albion - Fighter x1 / Bomber x2 (or Fighter x1 / Attack x1 / Bomber x1)
Who has fun, wins.

VincentNZ

Holy War? No Thanks.

(2,088)

Posts: 2,584

Date of registration
: Jul 25th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 14

  • Send private message

2

Tuesday, August 1st 2017, 1:00am

Honestly to everyone it must be obvious that the old system and/or your proposed settings is far better than the vehicle spawn system we have now.

Posts: 1,879

Date of registration
: Jan 12th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 13

  • Send private message

3

Tuesday, August 1st 2017, 6:58pm

This would be fine, except that you've slashed the useful number of vehicles on every single map and made it so that the actual useful vehicles are rarer.

1 heavy tank on Sinai? The "biggest map ever made in battlefield"? No heavy tanks on Giant?

Please.

We need some "vehicle heavy maps", it's not like the infantry combat in BF1 is a cut above that it can stand on those grounds. We currently have zero, and now you're suggesting we slash even deeper.

Soissons is a trash map, and it's the map you suggest concentrating the most vehicles on?

Please.

Having just 1 heavy tank per map is actually utterly shit from a balance perspective because it dumps all eggs in one basket. A shitbucket in one tank can easily out-duel the single enemy tank and then munch on infantry and positioning themselves to gank the respawn. This has been a pervasive issue with all maps with a single heavy vehicle per team. Having 2-3 pieces of armor diffuses that risk. Shitbuckets can't 2v1 anything but morons usually. It should come as no surprise to anyone that shitbucket tankers have always done the best on those maps.

Same goes for planes. Single shitbucket pilot can just keep clear skies, farm infantry, and then position himself for a quick gank on the respawn vs a single enemy plane. Happens basically constantly on Fao, hell even I can do it.

IOW single vehicle counts is a terrible design.

  • "BleedingUranium" started this thread

Posts: 3,429

Date of registration
: Mar 19th 2014

Platform: Xbox One

Location: Canada

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

  • Send private message

4

Tuesday, August 1st 2017, 8:36pm

I actually agree with almost all that, but I was being a bit conservative with armour for the first draft version. I've already swapped Shadow over to Heavies from another discussion, and more on Sinai and a few others would be good too. Currently at work on mobile so short response.
Who has fun, wins.

Posts: 1,879

Date of registration
: Jan 12th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 13

  • Send private message

5

Tuesday, August 1st 2017, 9:05pm

Something else to keep in mind. This still doesn't resolve the uselessness of the mortar truck and AA truck.

Posts: 181

Date of registration
: Mar 5th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 4

  • Send private message

6

Wednesday, August 2nd 2017, 3:09pm

I'd actually like this system extended to infantry too, I'd be happier if only a quarter of the team could be snipers for instance.

Posts: 710

Date of registration
: Sep 19th 2012

Platform: PS3

Location: Virginia, USA

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 8

  • Send private message

7

Thursday, August 3rd 2017, 3:31am

Or rather, something similar. (Also posted this on the CTE Reddit.)

Since BF1 introduced the "pick anything you want" vehicle spawn system we've seen very few positives, and a whole of problems. From massive overuse of the A7V, to airspace being filled with either nothing but Attack Planes not fighting each other to farm infantry or all Fighters that are entirely irrelevant to the ground, to camping Arty Trucks, to types and variants that almost never get picked either because they're underpowered compared to other choices or the enemy team stacking three A7Vs simply makes any other selection irrelevant, there are plenty of problems with this system.



Planes should be restricted by type, with each map having a set number of each type of plane; the Ilya Muromets would be available anywhere regular Bombers are.

Tanks should be grouped slightly more generally, split into Heavy Armour (A7V, Mark V, St. Chamond) and Light Armour (FT-17, Arty Truck, Putilov-Garford). I had originally split them more, but ultimately that proved rather awkward and unnecessary; this split should deal with a lot of the balance and usage issues that currently plague BF1 tanks, without being overly restricting.

There are a lot of factors that go into making a concept like this (role, comparison to other planes/tanks, AA/AT guns on map, map design, behemoth(s), factions involved, what other maps would have for vehicles, and so on) so if anything seems odd or unexpected I can probably give an explanation, I put a few hours into this. This would also allow for adjustments and rebalance to certain vehicles. Keep in mind this is for Conquest, and naturally there's room for adjustment, this is just a proof of concept.



* Fao Fortress - Heavy Armour x1 / Bomber x2
* Suez - Light Armour x1
* Sinai Desert - Light Armour x1 / Heavy Armour x1 / Fighter x1 / Attack Plane x2 / Bomber x1
* St Quentin Scar - Light Armour x1 / Heavy Armour x1 / Fighter x1 / Attack Plane x1 / Bomber x1
* Amiens - Light Armour x1 / Heavy Armour x1
* Giant's Shadow - Light Armour x2 / Fighter x1 / Attack Plane x1
* Ballroom Blitz - Light Armour x1 / Heavy Armour x1 / Attack Plane x1 / Bomber x1
* Monte Grappa - Light Armour x3 / Fighter x2 / Bomber x2
* Empire's Edge - Heavy Armour x2 / Fighter x1 / Attack Plane x1 / Bomber x2


* Nivelle Nights - Heavy Armour x1
* Prise De Tahure - Light Armour x1
* Soissons - Light Armour x2 / Heavy Armour x2 / Bomber x2
* Rupture - Light Armour x1 / Heavy Armour x1 / Fighter x1 / Attack Plane x1


* Russian maps aren't quite revealed enough to be completely sure of these, but this is a preliminary list:
* Lupkow Pass - Bomber x1 (or Attack Plane x1)
* Brusilov Keep - Light Armour x1
* Albion - Fighter x1 / Bomber x2 (or Fighter x1 / Attack x1 / Bomber x1)


Co-signed and LONG overdue, might I say...

And while we're at it, GIVE US a vehicle customization screen in the menus, fix the servers so our preferred loadout+livery doesn't always get erased every new round and I don't care who says what, give passengers/gunners points towards vehicle score!! If you want to give the driver/pilot a 1.5x multiplier, fine...

Posts: 504

Date of registration
: Dec 24th 2011

Platform: PS3

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 10

  • Send private message

8

Thursday, August 3rd 2017, 8:00am

While in a tank or plane as a passenger and not the Pilot/Tanker class, I'd still like to earn points for those classes. 600,000 points for a Sawn-Off, that you'll barely ever be able to use, is a silly grind.



Personal tanks and crew tanks most certainly should have been separate. What I see far too often in-game is one team wasting the only two tank spawns on armored trucks or light tanks while the other team has two crew tanks. Needless to say, when the opposing armor come face to face, the heavier armor almost always decimates the lighter armor. Not only that, but the team with the crew tanks effectively has mobile spawn points, which can have a huge impact on the tide the game takes. Light tanks and armored trucks have their place in Battlefield 1, but not in many of the situations that foolish players decide to spawn them in.

As far as planes go, each class serves a relatively different role. Fighters are really meant to protect bombers from other fighters and attack planes. When the skies are full of nothing but fighters on both sides, they become fairly redundant and not much more than sky decor. Or, if both teams spawn in nothing but bombers or attack planes (assuming the latter just ignore each other to go for grounds kills), they may be able to wreak way more havoc to the ground forces than they should be allowed to. As such, there needs to be more moderation in place to secure the aerial rock-paper-scissors balance.

With the current aircraft spawning goes, I'm actually a bit relieved that attack planes are dominant right now. Yes, they're pretty "overpowered" right now (in comparison to the other aircraft anyways). Due to their multi-role utilities, there's a good bit more of impact to the game's outcome when the skies are full of attack planes (post-patch) than when the skies were filled with fighters (pre-patch). This shouldn't be the case, but if DICE refuses to separate plane spawns, this is probably the best option for the time being.

Posts: 710

Date of registration
: Sep 19th 2012

Platform: PS3

Location: Virginia, USA

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 8

  • Send private message

9

Thursday, August 3rd 2017, 10:07am

Yeah, while historically accurate I'm really trying hard to figure out what role small tanks really have to play in BF1... I might sort of understand if they only appeared on maps with no heavy tanks...

Posts: 204

Date of registration
: Jun 9th 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 9

  • Send private message

10

Thursday, August 3rd 2017, 2:29pm

The problem with heavy tanks in BF1 is that they serve as a mobile spawn point, and we have never had a map with 2 AMTRACs previously. Having 2 MBTs is fine actually, but having 2 MBT+AMTRAC-rolled-into-one-package is very overpowering IMO as an infantry main, considering they would mostly kill farm you from 100m away. Example: Camping near C point on Empire farming infantry running up from B or F, and the tank was not even up the hill.