Welcome to symthic forums! We would love if you'd register!
You don't have to be expert in bit baking, everyone is more than welcome to join our community.

You are not logged in.

## Opinion on BF1's new spread mechanics

Hey! If this is your first visit on symthic.com, also check out our weapon damage charts.
Currently we have charts for Battlefield 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, Medal of Honor: Warfighter and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

Posts: 68

Date of registration
: Mar 2nd 2017

Platform: PS4

Reputation modifier: 1

Tuesday, July 18th 2017, 6:59am

I don't understand. How do you arrive at a higher DPS without taking hit rate into consideration when you clearly note that the shots you're firing would be inaccurate? You 'disagree', but what you typed out is almost exactly what @bleedinguranium is talking about.

Posts: 3,291

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

Reputation modifier: 15

Tuesday, July 18th 2017, 7:19am

Looks like someone doesn't comprehend what spread decrease actually is or is confused about the difference between slow and fast.

Fast spread decrease, like BF3/4, is what facilitates mag dumping, not slow. If spread decrease is slower, it means the user has to burst accordingly so that they don't accumulate too much spread.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

### Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38

AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
AccelerationDamping 4.0
AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
SquaredAcceleration 0.0
MaxAcceleration::Vec2
x 2.0
y 2.0
YawSpeedStrength 1.0
PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
x 1.0
y 1.2
AttractSoftZone 0.75
AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
AttractYawStrength 1.0
AttractPitchStrength 0.34
MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
SnapZoomTime 0.2
SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.2
SnapZoomPostTime 0.2
SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput 0.2
SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2
SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

### Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39

AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
AccelerationDamping 4.0
AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
SquaredAcceleration 0.0
MaxAcceleration::Vec2
x 2.0
y 2.0
YawSpeedStrength 1.0
PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
x 1.0
y 1.2
AttractSoftZone 0.0
AttractUserInputMultiplier 1.0
AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0
AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0
AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0
AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
AttractYawStrength 0.0
AttractPitchStrength 0.0
MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
SnapZoomTime 0.2
SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

### Source code

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39

 AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
AccelerationDamping 4.0
AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
SquaredAcceleration 0.0
MaxAcceleration::Vec2
x 2.0
y 2.0
YawSpeedStrength 1.0
PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
x 1.0
y 1.2
AttractSoftZone 0.75
AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
AttractYawStrength 1.0
AttractPitchStrength 0.34
MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
SnapZoomTime 0.2
SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

### Quoted from "Zer0Cod3x"

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2\$ tho

### My "Contributions"

Posts: 255

Date of registration
: Jun 9th 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 10

Tuesday, July 18th 2017, 12:46pm

### Quoted from "JSLICE20"

Looks like someone doesn't comprehend what spread decrease actually is or is confused about the difference between slow and fast.

Fast spread decrease, like BF3/4, is what facilitates mag dumping, not slow. If spread decrease is slower, it means the user has to burst accordingly so that they don't accumulate too much spread.
Fast spread decrease actually facilitates microbursting. Think back on BF3 where for all standard caliber weapons you can reset spread of 5 bullets in one 29.975Hz frame. There is no pause difference between a one tap and a 5 round burst, and the pause required is quite small.

### Quoted from "commandough"

I disagree, a slow S-Dec would proably result in mag-dumping being the most effective strat, as higher DPS would always be achieved by firing the next shot, regardless of how inaccurate it would be, rather than waiting for the weapon to slowly regain accuracy. It would also hamper the more skilled player in 1v2 engagements, as after killing one enemy and quickly switching targets, they would be forced to fire on them with a still largely inaccurate weapon. The current model allows weapons to be back at minspread after only a brief delay, ready to take on the next one.

If it is too slow compared SIPS then yes it is true. We have to strike a balance between SIPS and SDEC of course. For example, 0.1 SIPS and 6 SDEC where you can recover spread for one shot in one 59.95Hz frame. On the flip side if SIPS is too low like BF1 SMGs or BF4 SAR21 HB stubby, you would more likely than not mag dump.

Posts: 98

Date of registration
: Mar 4th 2017

Platform: PS4

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 2

Tuesday, July 18th 2017, 4:35pm

### Quoted from "Zer0Cod3x"

The addition of FSSM isn't actually all that different from previous BF titles. It's essentially linear spread increase with the added option of being able to single tap shots at range.

Yes, single tapping shots is not all that effective, and it is not supposed to be effective. At the range where single shots are effective, you're way outside of your SMG's effective range. However, at least you do have the option to hit targets at range now, whereas in previous titles you couldn't, even with tapfire for.

Negative SIPS is a good idea, however, the way it's implemented in BF1 is, IMO, incredibly boring. Without a recoil system that poses any real difficulty, LMGs are quite literally point and click weapons.

In order for negative SIPS to be well implemented, I think there needs to be some sort of recoil system that's far more complicated than the one currently in BF1.

I find the LMG implementation really "boring" as well. Point and click and wait for your weapon to reach shot-to shot precision where you can actually hit target.

I don't think negative SIPS is a good mechanic. It feels exceptionally gamey, which in my mind is fitting for a sci-fi arena shooter where there is no pretense the weapons aren't anything but fanciful. IMO it doesn't fit in well with something like BF1 that has a very arbitrary application of authenticity (essentially a thin veneer of aesthetics in this case). However DICE will always be plagued by the G36C fiasco where they stick by implementation based on their IRL experience.

Which is it DICE?

Especially frustrating is that negative SIPS carries over to vehicle MGs. Why? For consistency in handling? They don't need to fit in with any small arm balance paradigm because they aren't shooting it out against other small arms. If they wanted to prevent snap shots against proned infantry that could have just tweaked base spread values or added a first shot spread mult like with SMGs.

I agree. This is my intro to the whole gaming world, but the "longer burst is better" is totally counter-intuitive.

That said, I don't find the SMGs much better in that regard, particularly the Hellriegl.

If negative SIPs were removed, some other changes would be necessary so support isn't cannon fodder.

Salt Miner

Posts: 3,491

Date of registration
: Mar 19th 2014

Platform: Xbox One

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

Tuesday, July 18th 2017, 8:02pm

An alternative to MGs' negative SIPS could be to make them utterly unmanageable off a bipod, and complete laser beams of death when deployed.

I actually rather like this idea, especially when the BF1 bipod bonuses are nowhere near as good as they should be.
Who Enjoys, Wins

Posts: 926

Date of registration
: Dec 14th 2014

Platform: PS3

Location: The Heart of Europe

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 6

Tuesday, July 18th 2017, 11:52pm

### Quoted from "BleedingUranium"

An alternative to MGs' negative SIPS could be to make them utterly unmanageable off a bipod, and complete laser beams of death when deployed.

I actually rather like this idea, especially when the BF1 bipod bonuses are nowhere near as good as they should be.

WTF, I expect better from you, you have proven so many times your knowledge. This surprises me. You know how much focus in Battlefield movement now has!! Making MGs only useable on bipod is a death sentence then. No, dont do that.

Define where the MGs should be good at: mid to long range? You got that now.

You want to change FSSI and SIPS to make the first sequence of shots viable for surprise CQB? How about improving hipfire instead?
still playin' Motorstorm

Posts: 129

Date of registration
: Oct 8th 2016

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 2

Wednesday, July 19th 2017, 2:05am

### Quoted from "oba"

I don't understand. How do you arrive at a higher DPS without taking hit rate into consideration when you clearly note that the shots you're firing would be inaccurate? You 'disagree', but what you typed out is almost exactly what @bleedinguranium is talking about.
Because not firing in order to reduce spread gives a DPS of zero. if that delay is long enough, the increased hit rate of the following bullets won't be enough to average higher than just gambling that the next shots will hit.

Salt Miner

Posts: 3,491

Date of registration
: Mar 19th 2014

Platform: Xbox One

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

Wednesday, July 19th 2017, 6:01am

### Quoted from "BleedingUranium"

An alternative to MGs' negative SIPS could be to make them utterly unmanageable off a bipod, and complete laser beams of death when deployed.

I actually rather like this idea, especially when the BF1 bipod bonuses are nowhere near as good as they should be.

WTF, I expect better from you, you have proven so many times your knowledge. This surprises me. You know how much focus in Battlefield movement now has!! Making MGs only useable on bipod is a death sentence then. No, dont do that.

Define where the MGs should be good at: mid to long range? You got that now.

You want to change FSSI and SIPS to make the first sequence of shots viable for surprise CQB? How about improving hipfire instead?

Hahaha I appreciate that, but using a Bipod, especially in BF1, doesn't mean you have to roleplay a turret and just sit there. Dropping prone or up against an object while standing/crouched, dropping an enemy or two, then immediately moving again before you even have time to reload is very doable, and quite effective.

I'm not saying we need to get rid of the negative SIPS model, I actually really like it and think it's the best tool for the job of making MGs useful in the situations and ranges they should be effective at, but it seems a number of people aren't as fond of it; I'm just trying to think of any other possibilities that accomplish similar results, and there aren't many.
Who Enjoys, Wins

Sona tank jungle

Posts: 7,877

Date of registration
: May 30th 2012

Platform: PS4

Location: SURROUNDED BY FUCKING MOUNTAINS

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

Wednesday, July 19th 2017, 11:54am

The best way to use a bipod us to walk up to a wall and deploy it looking at the sky. Totes stylish.
Bro of Legion, the lurker ninja mod | Tesla FTW | RNG is evil.

### Quoted from "MsMuchLove"

I find majority of the complaints I hear about this game somehow never appear in my games.

Posts: 250

Date of registration
: Jun 5th 2015

Platform: Xbox One

Location: Hoth

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 7

Wednesday, July 19th 2017, 2:09pm

### Quoted from "Oscar"

The best way to use a bipod us to walk up to a wall and deploy it looking at the sky.

DICE should increase the TTL of LMG bullets to make this a viable playstyle.

Things I support

ammo regen pls

_____

### Quoted from "Skanic"

When I play with it [Autoloading 8] I feel like I am batman taking out 1 after 1 baddie while they feel helpless and don't know who is talking out their mates.

### Quoted from "TheSkillCommittee"

Remove 3D spotting. It’s a mechanic that rewards bad eyesight.

### Quoted from "Rezal"

Wanna help your team by sneaking through enemy territory to provide spawns? THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK FGT I HOPE YOU RUN OUT OF MOTION BALLS TOO EARLY TO BE SUCCESSFUL
Wanna be Javelin squad but only have two guys? BETTER NOT GET YOUR SOFLAM KILLED FGT THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK WITHOUT A SUPPORT DUDE DROPPING AMMO ON YOU EVERY 2 MINUTES