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Microbursting isn't deep though. It's basically a question of how quickly you can output 2 round bursts.
If you want depth to gunplay, changing optimal bursts through range is much better which is what the current model is capable of while eliminating microbursting.
@tankmayvin
Negative SIPS does kinda of incentivize using the lmg in a manner similar to real life. Long but controlled bursts walking fire into the enemy. Not a perfect analog but I think it kinda makes senses without adding a ton of recoil or a complicated heat management system into the game.
Exactly this. It's the best system a group of gunplay experts have been able to come up with. It may not be perfect, but I have yet to hear any suggestions that accomplish the same goal in a different way.
I've suggested Recoil Increase Per Shot, which would naturally be negative for MGs, but even that is really just a different flavour of the same concept.
Mirco-bursting is awful and excessively videogame-ish. Normal bursting, meaning three-to-six rounds, should absolutely be the optimal burst style. And MGs should definitely be firing long than that.
I thought we agreed that under both systems if we are close enough magdump is actually more favorable? Would you not also agree that in the old system there are specific ranges for each burst length, down to one tap?
If it flies, it dies™.
That's something that I've been mulling over recently. Did you know that the chauchat took a crew of four people to use properly? The amount of variables to keep track and complicated physical tasks to perform ate up the attentions of a full three of those men, which is something we can't translate into an FPS. It would probably make for a really kick ass VR game.@tankmayvin
Negative SIPS does kinda of incentivize using the lmg in a manner similar to real life. Long but controlled bursts walking fire into the enemy. Not a perfect analog but I think it kinda makes senses without adding a ton of recoil or a complicated heat management system into the game.
Exactly this. It's the best system a group of gunplay experts have been able to come up with. It may not be perfect, but I have yet to hear any suggestions that accomplish the same goal in a different way.
I've suggested Recoil Increase Per Shot, which would naturally be negative for MGs, but even that is really just a different flavour of the same concept.
Make a game where supressive firepower actually matters?
LMGs simply don't fit in with typical FPS games. Indeed even in IRL LMGs are rare because most infantrymen are served better by some sort of automatic rifle.
The philosophy that "we need LMGs because LMGs exist" is flawed when you don't have a meaningful way of making them relevant - if negative SIPS is the best thing they can come up with maybe they need to rethink LMGs period. They've always been a bit fucky depending on the title.
That's something that I've been mulling over recently. Did you know that the chauchat took a crew of four people to use properly? The amount of variables to keep track and complicated physical tasks to perform ate up the attentions of a full three of those men, which is something we can't translate into an FPS. It would probably make for a really kick ass VR game.@tankmayvin
Negative SIPS does kinda of incentivize using the lmg in a manner similar to real life. Long but controlled bursts walking fire into the enemy. Not a perfect analog but I think it kinda makes senses without adding a ton of recoil or a complicated heat management system into the game.
Exactly this. It's the best system a group of gunplay experts have been able to come up with. It may not be perfect, but I have yet to hear any suggestions that accomplish the same goal in a different way.
I've suggested Recoil Increase Per Shot, which would naturally be negative for MGs, but even that is really just a different flavour of the same concept.
Make a game where supressive firepower actually matters?
LMGs simply don't fit in with typical FPS games. Indeed even in IRL LMGs are rare because most infantrymen are served better by some sort of automatic rifle.
The philosophy that "we need LMGs because LMGs exist" is flawed when you don't have a meaningful way of making them relevant - if negative SIPS is the best thing they can come up with maybe they need to rethink LMGs period. They've always been a bit fucky depending on the title.
I thought we agreed that under both systems if we are close enough magdump is actually more favorable? Would you not also agree that in the old system there are specific ranges for each burst length, down to one tap?
Not really since the cost of another shot in the burst is fairly linear compared to the new model.
It becomes extremely profitable to just use single shots at minSpread and sacrifice just one frame of firing for it versus accumulating a lot of spread, potentially missing a few shots in your burst, and forcing a reset in order to be accurate for the next burst.
That is to say, microbursting/tapfiring is the optimum burst for the older model. The variation is a lot weaker there.
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