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NoctyrneSAGA

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21

Thursday, July 6th 2017, 5:11am

I still do not see how long range sniping is complicated by a 75m minimum zero.
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22

Thursday, July 6th 2017, 5:17am

All sights operate on the same principle.


Yes, but I imagine the "low holdover" thing you mention doesn't apply to telescopics. So a 20m zeroing would do them nicely.


The problem is that you're calling something casual because you think it's casual. You have no evidence "easy gameplay"/"casualness" is the reason.


I didn't think it was unreasonable to assume the devs knew exactly what they were doing.


EDIT: That list of weapon authenticity you included is at least consistent between all classes.


Only BAs have adjustable sights, that's why they are the only guns that model holdover/holdunder.

Yes it does. You have to hold-over/hold under for all sights regardless of zero'ed distance. Look at the picture I posted. This is a necessary consequence of the fact that all sights do not look down the bore of the weapon, and can often be significantly elevated over the barrel.

Also because of this fact, no weapon, regardless of sight is actually zeroed to 0m. Plenty of people advise not zeroing below ~100m for tall scope mounts.

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Thursday, July 6th 2017, 5:42pm

Since, what was it, BF4's Spring 2015 patch, a year and a half ago? Since then every single weapon in BF4 and now BF1 has its projectile/barrel offset from the camera/sights. Every single gun.

This means that every single gun has the bullet fire from below your camera, at a slight upward angle, pass above your point of aim, then drop back down through your point of aim again (this is your zero distance), and then keep dropping. Every gun has a zero distance, asking for them not to amounts to asking to divide by zero.


Also, as far as I'm aware, guns with offset sights/scopes in BF1 also spawn the projectile slightly to the left/right, and it will not fly perfectly straight on that axis, relative to your point of aim. I'd really like someone to do some solid digging in the files and/or proper testing on this though.
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NoctyrneSAGA

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Friday, July 7th 2017, 12:20am

He's not talking about that.

He's asserting that the 75m minimum zero is somehow punishing long range sniping.
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With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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Friday, July 7th 2017, 12:48am

He's not talking about that.

He's asserting that the 75m minimum zero is somehow punishing long range sniping.


Oh, well, if you put it any closer it's both pretty damn close for a sniper rifle, and also would push the trajectory to rather hilarious levels, flying considerably high then dropping very sharply. Putting it further actually causes a similar problem of shots going higher before the zero point, while also making longer range sniping easier (casual?), so... I'm not sure what the heck he wants.
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Friday, July 7th 2017, 12:58am

Oh, well, if you put it any closer it's both pretty damn close for a sniper rifle, and also would push the trajectory to rather hilarious levels, flying considerably high then dropping very sharply.

I don't understand.

Aren't the scoped SLRs zeroed at < 75m with no issues?

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Friday, July 7th 2017, 1:01am

The game is already very close-range oriented, more than it should be, we really don't need to bring the range of one of the few effective long range tools down at all.

But as to that question, does anyone have a handy list of zeroing around? I'm curious about that myself.
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NoctyrneSAGA

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28

Friday, July 7th 2017, 1:07am

Fairly certain SLRs are also zeroed for 75m.
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Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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29

Sunday, July 9th 2017, 12:42am

Just to clarify, most battlesights are zero'd at 75-100m because the bullet velocities of smokeless powder rifles firing spitzer bullets experience so little drop over the first 100m that the trajectory over the distance is very nearly flat--For instance, a 880m/s bullet drops a whooping 4mm over that distance in BF1 (Which is quite accurate ballistically). That's an eighth of an inch, for the Yanks. That also means that the peak of the trajectory would be something like 3.5mm above the bore (around probably 40-50m) if the gun is sighted for 100m, which is the difference between hitting someone's lower lip or someone's upper lip. This sighting gives you ideal targetting within the most lethal range of engagement for small arms with quite literally no downside within that range.

100m sighting is the standard for rifles, iron sights and many low-mag optics. Sighting for "0m" is


  1. Technically impossible unless you're staring through the bore (0m is a point directly in front of the barrel, and is therefore in enfilade by the gun you are looking over)
  2. Significantly less useful than a 100m sight.


Sighting too closely for cartridges this powerful with most battlesights would mean, after intersecting the Zero'd Distance, the bullet would continue to climb, and depending on the height of the sighting apparatus above bore axis, you could experience a rise of a couple inches by the time it reaches the trajectory peak. Plus, this distance is simply not.... Useful.

Also, to note, most usage of magnified optics is not done by the popular portrayal of a camoflaged sniper crawling through tall grass waiting for a high-value target to pop-up. It's used most by designated marksmen that run around, lean out of cover, peak over trenches, ect. just like the standard infantry man, but with the tactical requirement of staying further back, suppresing high-threat targets and reporting enemy movements and potential threats. Even at 30m these optics are still noticeably better for targetting and accuracy than ironsights, where in WW1 their biggest limiter of usage was production shortage, fragility, and non-adaptive military doctrine from the commanders.

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Sunday, July 9th 2017, 4:28am

Just to clarify, most battlesights are zero'd at 75-100m because the bullet velocities of smokeless powder rifles firing spitzer bullets experience so little drop over the first 100m that the trajectory over the distance is very nearly flat--For instance, a 880m/s bullet drops a whooping 4mm over that distance in BF1 (Which is quite accurate ballistically). That's an eighth of an inch, for the Yanks. That also means that the peak of the trajectory would be something like 3.5mm above the bore (around probably 40-50m) if the gun is sighted for 100m, which is the difference between hitting someone's lower lip or someone's upper lip. This sighting gives you ideal targetting within the most lethal range of engagement for small arms with quite literally no downside within that range.

100m sighting is the standard for rifles, iron sights and many low-mag optics. Sighting for "0m" is


  1. Technically impossible unless you're staring through the bore (0m is a point directly in front of the barrel, and is therefore in enfilade by the gun you are looking over)
  2. Significantly less useful than a 100m sight.


Sighting too closely for cartridges this powerful with most battlesights would mean, after intersecting the Zero'd Distance, the bullet would continue to climb, and depending on the height of the sighting apparatus above bore axis, you could experience a rise of a couple inches by the time it reaches the trajectory peak. Plus, this distance is simply not.... Useful.

Also, to note, most usage of magnified optics is not done by the popular portrayal of a camoflaged sniper crawling through tall grass waiting for a high-value target to pop-up. It's used most by designated marksmen that run around, lean out of cover, peak over trenches, ect. just like the standard infantry man, but with the tactical requirement of staying further back, suppresing high-threat targets and reporting enemy movements and potential threats. Even at 30m these optics are still noticeably better for targetting and accuracy than ironsights, where in WW1 their biggest limiter of usage was production shortage, fragility, and non-adaptive military doctrine from the commanders.


Good stuff.

The US was drilling zeroing down to 25m and then ranging up to 300m for the M16 family at one point, not sure what is being done currently.

Use of magnification optics varies a lot from army to army. In Canada the ELCAN 3.4x sight is widely issued to all infantrymen, although it is popular to move to a 1x holo sight, etc.