Welcome to symthic forums! We would love if you'd register!
You don't have to be expert in bit baking, everyone is more than welcome to join our community.

You are not logged in.

Hey! If this is your first visit on symthic.com, also check out our weapon damage charts.
Currently we have charts for Battlefield 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, Medal of Honor: Warfighter and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

Posts: 115

Date of registration
: Dec 14th 2016

Platform: PS4

Location: UK

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

  • Send private message

11

Wednesday, July 5th 2017, 8:42am

You've clearly never operated a firearm before have you?

MFW incrementally adjustable iron sights are a "casual" element.


I meant that forcing you to be zeroed to at least 75m is "casual". It seems like that's done to make close-range sniping more friendly to beginners but harms those who want to learn the bullet drop for longer-range sniping.


@Shalan

Zeroing a firearm to 0m is physically impossible.


True, but they conveniently seem to ignore that for the rest of the weapons in the game.

NoctyrneSAGA

PvF 2017 Champion

(9,456)

Posts: 6,946

Date of registration
: Apr 3rd 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

  • Send private message

12

Wednesday, July 5th 2017, 9:53am

I meant that forcing you to be zeroed to at least 75m is "casual". It seems like that's done to make close-range sniping more friendly to beginners but harms those who want to learn the bullet drop for longer-range sniping.


Is the 75m zero somehow interfering with your ability to shoot at long range?
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

Posts: 115

Date of registration
: Dec 14th 2016

Platform: PS4

Location: UK

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

  • Send private message

13

Wednesday, July 5th 2017, 10:00am

Is the 75m zero somehow interfering with your ability to shoot at long range?


Like I said, it adds a turning point to the equation which obviously further complicates things.

NoctyrneSAGA

PvF 2017 Champion

(9,456)

Posts: 6,946

Date of registration
: Apr 3rd 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

  • Send private message

14

Wednesday, July 5th 2017, 10:16am

I am not sure how that complicates things.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

  • "CReaperDorian" started this thread

Posts: 490

Date of registration
: Dec 24th 2011

Platform: PS3

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 10

  • Send private message

15

Wednesday, July 5th 2017, 10:21am

As far as I know, all guns have the projectiles spawn from a little below the direct center of the screen (to fix head glitching), and then the projectiles have a bit of upward velocity to lob them up to the center of your screen at a certain range. As such, all weapons are already "zeroed" at some range that isn't zero meters. If you zeroed a Battlefield 1 gun at zero meters while having the projectiles still spawn from below-center of the screen, the projectiles would just fly way upwards downrange.

Posts: 1,838

Date of registration
: Jan 12th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 13

  • Send private message

16

Wednesday, July 5th 2017, 3:38pm

As far as I know, all guns have the projectiles spawn from a little below the direct center of the screen (to fix head glitching), and then the projectiles have a bit of upward velocity to lob them up to the center of your screen at a certain range. As such, all weapons are already "zeroed" at some range that isn't zero meters. If you zeroed a Battlefield 1 gun at zero meters while having the projectiles still spawn from below-center of the screen, the projectiles would just fly way upwards downrange.


That's exactly how firearms work IRL. The sight picture is always above the muzzle, resulting in a bullet trajectory that crosses the sight-line at two points. One close to the muzzle, the other at the zeroed distance.


Posts: 1,838

Date of registration
: Jan 12th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 13

  • Send private message

17

Wednesday, July 5th 2017, 3:47pm

You've clearly never operated a firearm before have you?

MFW incrementally adjustable iron sights are a "casual" element.


I meant that forcing you to be zeroed to at least 75m is "casual". It seems like that's done to make close-range sniping more friendly to beginners but harms those who want to learn the bullet drop for longer-range sniping.


@Shalan

Zeroing a firearm to 0m is physically impossible.


True, but they conveniently seem to ignore that for the rest of the weapons in the game.


None of the other weapons have adjustable irons so it doesn't matter that much. Would you rather them all be zeroed for 25 m which is a typical min distance? Most of those guns aren't even useful at 25 m because of balancing.

You're literally complaining about something that is a physical absolute in firearms and calling it a mechanic designed for casual players.

It's totally not. 75m min zero is a totally REALISTIC value for an iron-sighted rifle because it gives you a low holdover compared to say 20m.

"Turning point" is absolutely a real feature in sighting firearms.

I have no idea what you're complaining about, you're just indicating a lack of understanding.

Posts: 115

Date of registration
: Dec 14th 2016

Platform: PS4

Location: UK

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

  • Send private message

18

Thursday, July 6th 2017, 4:07am

None of the other weapons have adjustable irons so it doesn't matter that much. Would you rather them all be zeroed for 25 m which is a typical min distance? Most of those guns aren't even useful at 25 m because of balancing.

You're literally complaining about something that is a physical absolute in firearms and calling it a mechanic designed for casual players.

It's totally not. 75m min zero is a totally REALISTIC value for an iron-sighted rifle because it gives you a low holdover compared to say 20m.

"Turning point" is absolutely a real feature in sighting firearms.

I have no idea what you're complaining about, you're just indicating a lack of understanding.



Just because some features have realistic derivatives, that doesn't mean they can't be cherry-picked for casual reasons. It sounds like you're just equating "casual" with unrealistic.

Sniping in Battlefield is nothing like "realistic" sniping. You're not lying down for minutes and meticulously adjusting your sights to a bunch of hostiles several hundred metres away. You're running about, peeking around corners and taking quick, standing shots at enemies often just 50m away. Being able to quickly account for bullet drop and take long range shots without exposing yourself for too long is also what's sometimes necessary.

But this damned zeroing system where you're stuck with at least 75m, which is not required by in-game physics, gets right in the way of that. It decided it wasn't interested in SLRs in any case, and it doesn't even visibly affect your sights, only where the bullet magically spawns from. Forcing you to be zeroed to a minimum distance you're largely inside of seems to be a convenient ("realistic") way to make sniping more easy inside 125m or so. But then trying to combat drag AND this then makes predicting bullet drop less intuitive and more arbitrary.

I was mostly referring to the non iron-sighted rifles anyway.

Posts: 1,838

Date of registration
: Jan 12th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 13

  • Send private message

19

Thursday, July 6th 2017, 4:17am

None of the other weapons have adjustable irons so it doesn't matter that much. Would you rather them all be zeroed for 25 m which is a typical min distance? Most of those guns aren't even useful at 25 m because of balancing.

You're literally complaining about something that is a physical absolute in firearms and calling it a mechanic designed for casual players.

It's totally not. 75m min zero is a totally REALISTIC value for an iron-sighted rifle because it gives you a low holdover compared to say 20m.

"Turning point" is absolutely a real feature in sighting firearms.

I have no idea what you're complaining about, you're just indicating a lack of understanding.



Just because some features have realistic derivatives, that doesn't mean they can't be cherry-picked for casual reasons. It sounds like you're just equating "casual" with unrealistic.

Sniping in Battlefield is nothing like "realistic" sniping. You're not lying down for minutes and meticulously adjusting your sights to a bunch of hostiles several hundred metres away. You're running about, peeking around corners and taking quick, standing shots at enemies often just 50m away. Being able to quickly account for bullet drop and take long range shots without exposing yourself for too long is also what's sometimes necessary.

But this damned zeroing system where you're stuck with at least 75m, which is not required by in-game physics, gets right in the way of that. It decided it wasn't interested in SLRs in any case, and it doesn't even visibly affect your sights, only where the bullet magically spawns from. Forcing you to be zeroed to a minimum distance you're largely inside of seems to be a convenient ("realistic") way to make sniping more easy inside 125m or so. But then trying to combat drag AND this then makes predicting bullet drop less intuitive and more arbitrary.

I was mostly referring to the non iron-sighted rifles anyway.


All sights operate on the same principle.

The problem is that you're calling something casual because you think it's casual. You have no evidence "easy gameplay"/"casualness" is the reason.

What is more likely is that the weapons work the way they do because it approximates how real weapons work.

Battlefield is not realistic in any way, however they put a disproportionate amount of effort in making the weapons authentic (Firing animations, reloading, muzzle velocities, etc, etc). It is far more likely that adjustable sights work the way they do because that's how adjustable gunsights work IRL, irons otherwise. Even with a red dot sight you cannot zero to 0 m.

I'm not equating anything to anything - I'm just disagreeing with your totally unsubstantiated claims.

Posts: 115

Date of registration
: Dec 14th 2016

Platform: PS4

Location: UK

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

  • Send private message

20

Thursday, July 6th 2017, 4:41am

All sights operate on the same principle.


Yes, but I imagine the "low holdover" thing you mention doesn't apply to telescopics. So a 20m zeroing would do them nicely.


The problem is that you're calling something casual because you think it's casual. You have no evidence "easy gameplay"/"casualness" is the reason.


I didn't think it was unreasonable to assume the devs knew exactly what they were doing.


EDIT: That list of weapon authenticity you included is at least consistent between all classes.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Shalan" (Jul 6th 2017, 4:56am)