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  • "BleedingUranium" started this thread

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Saturday, June 24th 2017, 8:10pm

BF1's slow Time To Kill, and how to fix it without breaking inter-weapon balance

Per MarbleDuck's recent video, brought to my attention in this CTE thread, BF1's Assault/Medic/Support TTK is unreasonably slow. Watch the video, because it sums things up perfectly, but in short: Buff Bullets To Kill by one for the MP 18, Ribeyrolles, and all LMGs, and buff all SLRs' Rate Of Fire by one "step" to match. But really, just watch the video.

Interestingly, I think Scout's supposed overpowered-ness seems to come from it being balanced properly, then everything else's TTK being made slow; BF1 Scout effectiveness would be perfect in BF4.
Who has fun, wins.

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Saturday, June 24th 2017, 8:52pm

Yes, just need to spam the CTE sub with it now, until DICE's new democratic approach to game design kicks in.

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Saturday, June 24th 2017, 9:11pm

Definitely will be a CTE project if it is to ever materialize. But hey, what changes arent CTE projects?
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Saturday, June 24th 2017, 10:35pm

*coughs*
BF4 G36C
*coughs*

Was there ever a "final" explanation as to why nobody could ever change the RoF? Last I heard, it was something about how the weapon firing sounds were recorded.

Thus, it being "stuck" at 650RPM, and then further "bound" by being a "Standard Carbine" and thus 0.3 ADS Not Moving / 0.8 ADS Moving / 5-7BTK damage model... they did the only things they could: lowering SIPS and H-Recoil to quite outlier levels... and STILL had no takers, as far as I can tell from usage stats.

Unless BF1's version of Frostbite got a lot more flexible, I wouldn't hold my breath about any RoF changes.

*edited to add* Apparently the Pedersen Device did get changed from 449RPM to 359RPM, so I guess there is hope for semi-auto weapons. Still, the "BF4 G36C" thing really harkens to the current plight of the Huot: no matter how hard you try to hit the ACW-R (BF1's BAR) with the SIPS and H-Recoil nerf-hammers, high RoF is forever useable at USEFUL RANGES.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Veritable" (Jun 24th 2017, 10:48pm)


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Saturday, June 24th 2017, 11:14pm

Increase Bullet damage is fine and all, but isnt the spread mechanic which makes the weapons unable to do anything outside their intended rage and therefore making traversing the map a deathtrap?

I am not saying that the damage change is bad, but isnt that just a small part of the problem ?


@Veritable regarding G36C. It is a low-rof fast reload variant of the qbz carbine. If you want something more like 750 RPM you could pick ACE 21 and have 770 RPM. Case closed. Secondly, 750 is kind of an awesome ROF in BF3/4, slow enough to deliver small recoil and spread, but not so slow to be killed at every engagement. Giving an all access Weapon Class an all purpose 750RPM weapon would be way flexible. If you want that ROF you need to pick some of the class specific variants. E.g. M416/PDW-R
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Saturday, June 24th 2017, 11:27pm

I don't think DICE was really concerned about carbines being 'all-purpose weapons'. Guns like the M4, ACE 21 or to a lesser extent the AK 5C could be used on any map in the game. What's special about 750 rpm though? I thought the game was balanced around 770 rpm anyway, with its spread increase per shot of 0.1. Also, you can theoretically get 750 rpm while using the AKU-12 in burst mode.

  • "BleedingUranium" started this thread

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Sunday, June 25th 2017, 2:35am

*coughs*
BF4 G36C
*coughs*

Was there ever a "final" explanation as to why nobody could ever change the RoF? Last I heard, it was something about how the weapon firing sounds were recorded.

Thus, it being "stuck" at 650RPM, and then further "bound" by being a "Standard Carbine" and thus 0.3 ADS Not Moving / 0.8 ADS Moving / 5-7BTK damage model... they did the only things they could: lowering SIPS and H-Recoil to quite outlier levels... and STILL had no takers, as far as I can tell from usage stats.

Unless BF1's version of Frostbite got a lot more flexible, I wouldn't hold my breath about any RoF changes.

*edited to add* Apparently the Pedersen Device did get changed from 449RPM to 359RPM, so I guess there is hope for semi-auto weapons. Still, the "BF4 G36C" thing really harkens to the current plight of the Huot: no matter how hard you try to hit the ACW-R (BF1's BAR) with the SIPS and H-Recoil nerf-hammers, high RoF is forever useable at USEFUL RANGES.



I used the hell out of the G36C in BF4, I loved that gun.

Semi weapons are fine because they replay a single gunshot over and over for every shot, whereas I'm pretty sure autos need reworks because it's one continuous full-auto audio recording, so you either need to do some very intensive audio editing or just rerecord it entirely. Given that Medic's only two auto SLRs are really more like semi-auto macros (Cei/M1907), and that the proper auto Avtomat won't need to change from its expected 450rpm, there shouldn't be any problems here.

The Huot would be entirely fine with one fewer bullet to kill at all ranges (4-6BTK), combined with lengthened damage dropoff.

----

As for the Hellriegel, I think Duck was getting quite close to the new ideal for this gun, which also happens to be what I expected from it before launch: A sort of longer-range bridge between SMGs and LMGs, since that's what it is. High RoF, high capacity, low recoil, but with low damage. Not unlike the Huot in playstyle, but with a high RoF. As he also mentioned, the new 700rpm MG 14 should probably be much the same concept.

These two would actually play rather similarly to the Rem 8 .35 in this regard (very high RoF but with great controllability and range), though trading a bit of effectiveness for more ammo. I think that's the closest we'll get to a Rem 8 for Assault and Support.
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NoctyrneSAGA

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Sunday, June 25th 2017, 3:50am

@Veritable

Here's an approximation for how the sound for the guns work (and I did use this methodology for my capstone project).

1) When Fire is first pressed play Starting Shot SFX

2) If Fire is held, play Looped Shot SFX

3) If Fire is released, play End Shot SFX



Something similar is applied for the firing animations too IIRC



The initial fire rate of 650 is due to the G36C they used in initial recording being closer to 650 RPM.

Presumably the same thing happened with the Chauchat being 360 RPM.

Manufacturing quality I guess.
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Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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Sunday, June 25th 2017, 3:57am

@Veritable

Here's an approximation for how the sound for the guns work (and I did use this methodology for my capstone project).

1) When Fire is first pressed play Starting Shot SFX

2) If Fire is held, play Looped Shot SFX

3) If Fire is released, play End Shot SFX



Something similar is applied for the firing animations too IIRC



The initial fire rate of 650 is due to the G36C they used in initial recording being closer to 650 RPM.

Presumably the same thing happened with the Chauchat being 360 RPM.

Manufacturing quality I guess.


The Chauchat unambiguously fires at 250 because of the length of the recoil stroke. You can't push it faster with any sort of modification. The G36C they tested at 650 rpm and that they refused to change on those grounds is just proof that computer nerds shouldn't involve themselves in things they don't understand.

Their stubbornness was moronic, and the weapon was useless as a result and would have remained useless in the BF4 context even if they turned off recoil.

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Sunday, June 25th 2017, 3:57am

Infantry variants of Single-Action Rifles for all Classes, of all Factions, in all Modes, please!

(I've never bothered with Back to Basics, but I find the premise is just strange.... Middle East maps, British vs. Ottomans, and it's SMLE vs. M-H? Who thought THAT would be a good matchup?)

On flag burn, and you run into Automatico? Headshot 1HK gives you your fighting chance.

Between flags, and a Scout zeroed in on you? Yes, he's got a Marksman / Sniper scope, and you only have Irons... but you share damage model, so that's your fighting chance.

And if an Automatico user finally gets tired of repeatedly getting "Sweet-Spotted" by all the other classes while transiting between flags, then he can feel free to grab an Infantry Single-Action Rifle for himself! One less Automatico user makes the world a better place!

(I know it won't happen, but it really should... wasn't there a petition about this?)