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CobaltRose

I'll be there... around every corner... in every empty room...

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: Nov 8th 2013

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Location: Boston's Trashcan, USA

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31

Tuesday, May 23rd 2017, 4:32pm

Don't listen to Cobalt. The problem arises at the many ranges at which the Frommer is not competent, and the rifle is not either.
Don't listen to the guy that has firsthand experience? In the infamous words of George R.R. Martin, "Well fuck you too."

I've been running the Stop for the last week or so and it's not just the range that I find the Stop suffers from: it's the capacity. Needing four or five shots to kill from an 7+1-shot magazine means that you have very little room for error -- even less so when you factor in moving targets and ADAD-spamming targets. Run through the magazine in order to give it that test-killing burst DPS, and you're looking at a two-second reload, which is basically a death sentence in CQB unless you did enough damage for a melée finisher. I still stand by my initial assessment that the Stop is a finisher pistol: compared to the other .32ACP sidearms it lacks an extra round in the magazine but gains a draw speed buff. With a draw speed like that (tied with the Bulldog for fastest in game) it's not meant to be a primary: it's meant to mop up after the primary.

The Pedersen trades that capacity problem for a fire rate problem: 359rpm isn't fast enough to make up for the lack of damage, and it simply gets shredded by the Assault and Support classes. I guess the way to get around that is to do the opposite of the Stop and run a No.3 alongside it: that way you have your big damage and can mop up with the Pedersen.

I encourage you to actually take a look at it in practice: break out of your Model 8 safe space for once and give it a good shakedown. Then do the same with the Stop, 1895 Trench, G.95, SMLE and (if you're feeling frisky) the Martini, and see how your overall effectiveness with each compares.

(BTW dumb OT question: why aren't the fire rates rounded off? I know there's a purpose but it looks odd.)
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

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I once tried to burn a bridge, but due to the half-assed levolution implementation it kept standing up just fine.

Compared to the MTAR, the PDR has the TTK of your average pack of cigarettes.

The World Champion, on the Tactical Light:
"Oh don't mind me, I'm just out of ammo and I'll just POCKET SUN!!!!"

What can't be changed can be banned.

I'm completely serious. Well, seriously insane actually :P

If only more people left the wheel chair, adjustable hospital bed, and crutches behind and played HC. (aka Regen, Minimap, Killcam)

Natalia Poklonskaya:
Putin the cute in prosecute since 2014.

I can't look at my own avatar without having to pee. GG Me. GG.

I swear to god if you reply with a picture of the AEK I'll mail you a buttplug shaped like one.

The one time when "it's only three inches" is a good thing.

How do you guys control your FAMAS burst length since it fires its mag in just 1,5 seconds))
I consider each magazine a burst. :/

This is Symthic, we don't do "feels" around here ;)



  • "Veritable" started this thread

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32

Thursday, June 1st 2017, 3:55am

Tweaked the criteria somewhat, so original 4 posts updated.

10% time needed to deploy the weapon, 50% time needed to shoot-and-recover in order to reach Damage Target, 10% time needed for projectiles to hit the target, 10% time needed to reload the spent projectiles, 5% V-Recoil Per Second, 5% H-Recoil Per Second, 5% Recoil FSM, 5% Recoil Recovery Rate.

25 Hipfire Not Moving stances, 1m to 25m, 1m increments. 25 Hipfire Moving stances, 1m to 25m, 1m increments. 25 ADS Moving stances, 3m to 75m, 3m increments. 25 ADS Not Moving stances, 5m to 125m, 5m increments. Total stances 100. Average distance 32.5m.

Burst Length differs per stance, where the shooter shoots until Hitrate drops below 25%, then stops to recover Spread, before repeating.

Damage Target 200.


The "bestguns" are unchanged... due to them being "bestguns," if you ask me :P Some of the stance-specific top choices have changed, though.

-----

To make this post more useful, I can also declare the following:

Best Overall Gun Family / Best LMG Family - BAR 1918 variants

Best SMG Family - Automatico M1918 variants

Best Shotgun Family - 12g Automatic variants

Best Self-Loading Rifle Family - Autoloading 8 variants

Best Bolt-Action Rifle Family - Gewehr M.95 variants (Sweetspot or not), SMLE MKIII variants (With Sweetspot)

Best Revolver - Bulldog

Best Factory / Low Weight - Madsen MG

Best Optical (Galilean Sight) - MP 18 Experimental (Sight Only), MP 18 Optical (Actual "Optical" with the Foregrip)

Best Marksman / Telescopic / Suppressive (2.5x - 4x telescopic sight; no Scope Glint) - BAR 1918 Telescopic

Best Sniper (with Scope Glint) - Gewehr 98

Best "muh WW1 realism" (Bolt-Action Rifle with Iron Sight) - Russian 1895 Trench (Sweetspot or Not, All Stances), Gewehr 98 Infantry (With Sweetspot, All Stances), Russian 1895 Infantry (Sweetspot or Not, Only ADS)

-----

Next update: When the Russians are Coming (and thus the DLC2 new weapons and their stats are live on Symthic BF1 Weapon Info)

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33

Thursday, June 1st 2017, 5:24am

I love how that's each weapon class's insane high RoF/DPS weapon. And it makes perfect sense, when the game forces everyone into such tight, hectic quarters all the time the utility of weapons specialized past 20-30m is questionable, sadly.
Who has fun, wins.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "BleedingUranium" (Jun 1st 2017, 9:44pm) with the following reason: spelling


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: Dec 26th 2015

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34

Thursday, June 1st 2017, 7:20am

I just ground out the 300 kills with the 1906 (and got the sniper variant), and I've retried the Autoloading 8 .35 variants again (Not the .25) ... I've found that I don't quite find them as fun as before.
In fact, most recently, I've started really using the RSC1917 Factory, the lowest scoring SLR. (Just because it's at the opposite of the spectrum)

Where the Selbstlader 1906 and Autoloading .35 taught me accuracy with 5 rounds, the RSC1917 has (In my opinion) a better ability - guaranteed 2 hit kills or one 94 damage headshot out to 44m.
It doesn't mean it's the best gun for all situations, in fact, far from it. I wouldn't recommend this for close quarters - really anything under 15m, as just about everything outperforms it. (Switch to the auto-revolver - it's like a close quarters RSC)
If you're moving with your squad, you can be the primer for their kills, or vice versa. And as a medic, healing everybody up or reviving them after the fact just makes you all the more effective.
My favorite part of it though, is the maximum 6 rounds. It gives you a little more wiggle room for error, and sometimes, that sixth round means a third enemy down.
I love the math behind the statistics
It's possible to find me online at almost any given time, due to the fact that my schedule is hectic and rather non-existent.

Who needs sleep anyways?
(PC/PS4 gamer)

Various bf4 spreadsheets: (nothing special, just raw data from the Symthic website put into a spreadsheet to analyze all values at once)

Spoiler Spoiler


General Weapon spreadsheet:
BF4_Weapons_enhanced_UPDATED_2016
Soldier Equipment:
BF4_Gadget_Damage
Interactive Damage Table
bf4_dmg_at_range - Google Sheets
Unsuppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Charts
bf4_sniper_guide
Suppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Charts
Suppressed bf4_sniper_guide
More user friendly Unsuppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Chart
Friendlier Sniper rifle Bullet Drop Chart
More user friendly Suppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Chart
Friendlier Suppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Chart

  • "Veritable" started this thread

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: Dec 8th 2013

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35

Thursday, June 1st 2017, 10:09pm

I love how that's each weapon class's insane high RoF/DPS weapon. And it makes perfect sense, when the game forces everyone into such tight, hectic quarters all the time the utility weapons specialized past 20-30m is questionable, sadly.

Well, it's not just that. For example, I didn't know just how good the BAR's base spread values actually are, until I assembled all the numbers.

-----

Here is BAR 1918 Telescopic vs. M1907 SL Trench, the top Medic gun for Hipfire. 11m Hipfire Moving, race to 200dmg. You'd think Trench > Telescopic in Hipfire, right?

BAR shoots 11RB, expects 216.3878915dmg, Damage Target reached. At its 600RPM rate and with 60Hz tickrate, takes 1.133333333s to shoot + recover.

M1907 shoots 5RB, expects 210dmg, Damage Target reached. At its 299RPM rate and with the same 60Hz tickrate, takes 1.166666667s to shoot + recover.

Scores: BAR Telescopic - 597.9300283 vs. M1907 Trench 576.0225553

Granted, 11m Hipfire Moving is the tipping point.... Farther than this, the M1907 Trench wins. Anything closer, though, the BAR not-even-Trench is more than accurate enough.

-----

What about long-range ADS Not Moving? Here is BAR 1918 Trench vs. Selbstlader 1906 "Optical", the top Medic gun for ADS. 110m ADS Not Moving, again race to 200dmg.

BAR shoots 1x 10RB + 1x 9RB, expects 109.8059741dmg + 92.71419347dmg = 202.52016757dmg, Damage Target reached. Takes 1.883333333s to shoot + recover.

1906 shoots 2x 5RB + 1x 2RB, expects 81.03416094dmg x2 + 61.82728102dmg = 223.8956029dmg, Damage Target reached. Takes 2.333333333s to shoot + recover.

Scores: BAR Trench - 753.6105808 vs. 1906 "Optical" 681.5618545

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If its "Telescopic" can hang with others "Trench" in Hipfire, while its "Trench" is competitive with others "Optical / Marksman" in ADS, is it "bestgun?" I think so.

-----

Now, I admit that in the back of my mind, having my "shooter" dynamically adjust the Burst Length, for every Stance, does mean the shooting efficiency is quite maximised, and could represent slightly "unrealistic" usage.

For example, the Automatico Factory user at 50m ADS Not Moving would shoot 2x 10RB + 1x 1RB to reach the 200dmg Target, due to still-decent ~29% Hitrate even at the 10th shot. However, at 100m ADS Not Moving, he switches to 18x 2RB + 1x 1RB to achieve the same. Thus, the vaunted MP 18 Optical only manages to overtake the Automatico Factory at beyond 100m.

Is that asking too much from the Automatico shooter? Maybe. People keep telling me that this is more "representative" of how players approach Battlefield "gunplay" though (shoot until you start missing, then maybe you should stop shooting), so this is what I'm doing.

Basically, as long as Recoil and Spread are not ridiculously outlandish, and can be managed by the shooter through mouse input / burst length discipline, then RPM x Projectile Damage = DPS still wins the day.

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36

Thursday, June 1st 2017, 10:32pm

And dropping that down to 100HP, it really shows/proves just how very usable the Automatico and BAR are at range. The ranged guns, like the MP18, M1906, Huot, and such, generally don't offer a significant benefit when also looking at how much more effort they take to actually get that advantage, and also how much they give up in closer ranges, on the move, etc.

I maintain, and have since launch, that the Madsen, MG 15, and BAR are all you'll really ever need for MGs; the rest aren't terrible, and do some ultra-specific things very well, but in the end, in practice, the closer range, spammier guns tend to work better. The irony of this is that guns like the Huot require a very high skill level, as less than perfect accuracy nullified its only benefits, yet at the same time a player that skilled would probably do better putting those skills to use with a different MG.

That's sort of where the Rem 8 .35 has ended up to me. It definitely helped make me a better player, and it's a fantastic gun, but it's also overkill. Unless you're fighting lots of high-skill, probably-organized players and also somehow getting both into only 1v1s (or 1v2s), and also fair, same-time-start duel-style 1v1s, the Rem 8 isn't really nessessary. A player good enough to use the Rem 8 is probably better off switching to a different SLR.
Who has fun, wins.

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37

Friday, June 2nd 2017, 4:28am

And dropping that down to 100HP, it really shows/proves just how very usable the Automatico and BAR are at range. The ranged guns, like the MP18, M1906, Huot, and such, generally don't offer a significant benefit when also looking at how much more effort they take to actually get that advantage, and also how much they give up in closer ranges, on the move, etc.

I maintain, and have since launch, that the Madsen, MG 15, and BAR are all you'll really ever need for MGs; the rest aren't terrible, and do some ultra-specific things very well, but in the end, in practice, the closer range, spammier guns tend to work better. The irony of this is that guns like the Huot require a very high skill level, as less than perfect accuracy nullified its only benefits, yet at the same time a player that skilled would probably do better putting those skills to use with a different MG.

That's sort of where the Rem 8 .35 has ended up to me. It definitely helped make me a better player, and it's a fantastic gun, but it's also overkill. Unless you're fighting lots of high-skill, probably-organized players and also somehow getting both into only 1v1s (or 1v2s), and also fair, same-time-start duel-style 1v1s, the Rem 8 isn't really nessessary. A player good enough to use the Rem 8 is probably better off switching to a different SLR.


I use the Mondragon Storm all the time, and in some cases the M1916 Marksman for long range and better counter sniping.
Got like 3.3-3.4 KPM with the M1916 Marksman.

90% of the kills happen below 70 Meters. Where all the Variants of the 1906 are king and then the Mondragon,

Mondragon also has the fastest clip reload after the 1906.

In the moment however, I am more addicted to the Slug Shotgun and Sniper Rifles.

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38

Wednesday, June 7th 2017, 7:35am

I use the Mondragon Storm all the time, and in some cases the M1916 Marksman for long range and better counter sniping.
Got like 3.3-3.4 KPM with the M1916 Marksman.

90% of the kills happen below 70 Meters. Where all the Variants of the 1906 are king and then the Mondragon,

Mondragon also has the fastest clip reload after the 1906.


I'm just starting to use the other variants of medic rifles that I previously ignored. I just finished working with the RSC1917 factory - finally proving my point that it's more of a squad support weapon than an individual take on the world one.
The Mondragon Storm is the next on my list.
For playing with blueberries & squadmates that don't work together, Veritable's stats are spot on. (Auto 8 35. Marksman or Factory skill cannons)

I've been aggressively playing medic lately, testing out all sorts of variations of primary loadouts (mainly on TDM & Domination, but a few CQ as well... Auto Revolver is awesome btw)
And the best thing that I've learned so far is that as of right now, I can't use optical variants of the SLRs - with the exception of the 1906 and it's fake factory that's actually an ironsight optical variant. (The recoil & spread decrease outweigh having a clearer sight picture IMO)
I love the math behind the statistics
It's possible to find me online at almost any given time, due to the fact that my schedule is hectic and rather non-existent.

Who needs sleep anyways?
(PC/PS4 gamer)

Various bf4 spreadsheets: (nothing special, just raw data from the Symthic website put into a spreadsheet to analyze all values at once)

Spoiler Spoiler


General Weapon spreadsheet:
BF4_Weapons_enhanced_UPDATED_2016
Soldier Equipment:
BF4_Gadget_Damage
Interactive Damage Table
bf4_dmg_at_range - Google Sheets
Unsuppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Charts
bf4_sniper_guide
Suppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Charts
Suppressed bf4_sniper_guide
More user friendly Unsuppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Chart
Friendlier Sniper rifle Bullet Drop Chart
More user friendly Suppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Chart
Friendlier Suppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Chart

  • "Veritable" started this thread

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: Dec 8th 2013

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39

Wednesday, September 13th 2017, 1:10am

Original Post and the 4 following ones are updated as of DLC2, plus the Support LMG Hipfire Nerf from August 21st.

New "Bestgun" is the Assault Primary Model 1900 Slug (DLC2) - Best in Hipfire, best in ADS - Moving, #11 in ADS - Not Moving.

Here are some more "themed loadouts" with their respective scores, involving this DLC, for you to try out. They are ranked in terms of combined scores, low to high.

-----

The "Black-Powdered Italian Scout" - Vetterli-Vitali M1870 Carbine (DLC2) (363.7804159) + Bodeo 1889 (370.2861075) = 734.0665234

The "Chinese Civil War Medic" - General Liu Rifle Factory (DLC2) (419.2390024) + Mauser C96 (or is it "Wauser"?)(393.6437118 ) = 812.8827142

The "trying to unlock the Fedorov Avtomat Optical (DLC2) " - Selbstlader M1916 Optical (444.0431416) + Mauser C96 (393.6437118 ) = 837.6868534

The above, having gotten enough M1916 kills but still needing C96 kills, so might as well work on unlocking the Fedorov Avtomat Trench (DLC2) - Cei-Rigotti Trench (449.4420647) + Mauser C96 (393.6437118 ) = 843.0857765

The "450RPM Aggressive Medic" - Fedorov Avtomat Trench (DLC2) (469.3159066) + Taschenpistole M1914 (427.3887094) = 896.704616 (this is one of the best Medic setup you can run right now)

The "Many-Barrelled Assault" - Model 1900 Slug (DLC2) (695.1260584) + Howdah Pistol (349.3425916) = 1044.46865

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40

Wednesday, September 13th 2017, 1:51am

I'd like to see the ADS-only ranking (moving plus not moving) out of curiosity.

I had asked about muzzle velocity and commented that 5% seemed too low. When I reread your post it says 10% - I assume that's the new formula?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "InterimAegis" (Sep 13th 2017, 2:08am)