Ranking Everything in BF1 Redux - Page 2 - Battlefield 1: General Discussion

CobaltRose

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Thursday, May 18th 2017, 4:59am

Quoted from "Veritable"

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#1 About the "Pedersen Device" as the overall pick for Scout Primary, and the Scout Class having Secondaries generally ranked AHEAD of Primaries (such as the Frommer Stop being crowned as Best Scout Anything)....

I will admit that I have basically no experience playing as Scout in BF1. So, I'm afraid I cannot speak from actual in-game experience. ...

So, am I saying that, IMO (for whatever it's worth), "relevant" Scouts in BF1 should use the Experimental as their Primary? I guess I am. Others, insisting on using "sweetspot rifles," then should run around with the Frommer Stop as their "primary," only pulling out the rifle for "sweetspot" engagements.

Besides, the Experimental, even at 100m, shooting 2x 6RB + 1x 2RB (14rnds total), still gets to 100dmg Target WAY faster than the Martini-Henry (who shoots 2x 1RB). 2.8s vs. 4.783333333s.

I have 28 service stars with the Scout class so I can chime in on this (suck it, duck!). While I do agree that the sweet-spot rifles are inconsistent as all hell, as I stated in the original thread the Pedersen doesn't sit right with me.

For a non-video game example, I'd like to bring up NFL New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady. Brady didn't get drafted until the sixth round (199th overall out of 254 selected in the 2000 draft) because his stats at the combine weren't the greatest. Too slow, meh arm strength, not-so-decent accuracy, etc. However, he has sat at the top of the league for over a decade and a half due to the things that the experts of the league couldn't measure. His tenacity, pocket presence and ability to read a defense before the snap made him an offensive terror, and with defensive mastermind Bill Belichick as his coach has created a sixteen-year dynasty that

Why do I bring this up? Simple: the Pedersen is the exact opposite of that. On paper it kicks the snot out of the sweet-spot rifles. You say that the pistols beat out the sniper rifles in your comparisons, and since the Pedersen is basically a C93 in carbine form with quadruple the mag size it fits right in with that. However, the stuff you can't see in the stats really come to be its downfall: namely, its sights. The normal 1903 sights are great (even if the post shroud is a bit thick), the Pedersen device blocks a lot of your view around the target.

See here

Point of aim is the top of the post.

In the past one could work around this: for example, the FAMAS's Famous Amos Hipfire Cookies until you could unlock the Reflex Sight. However in BF1 where everything is preset for you, there's no magical optical sights for the Pedersen. Its hipfire is meh at best (though I guess having a bayonet on it doesn't help, whoops), and its combined damage and fire rate makes spamming more difficult (think Auto 8 Extended if it needed an extra bullet to kill to start, then needed three extra bullets to kill by the time it hits 35m).

Your numbers take this into account and still give it the nod, but they also overlook another (actually statistical) problem: muzzle velocity. Sure, .30-18 Automatic isn't exactly a firebrand of a cartridge and 410m/s is actually a little on the hot side compared to real life, but is still miserable when trying to hit a moving target. Very rarely will a target be stationary within your effective range, and having to land eight shots at 35m while your target is doing a drunken Mexican Hat Dance with their not-an-oversized-pistol is straight-up suicide.

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Quoted from "RRR3186"

How do you guys control your FAMAS burst length since it fires its mag in just 1,5 seconds))

I consider each magazine a burst. :/

Quoted from "ViperFTW"

This is Symthic, we don't do "feels" around here

This post by "Veritable" (Thursday, May 18th 2017, 6:07am) has been deleted by the author himself (Friday, February 2nd 2018, 12:19am)

VincentNZ

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Thursday, May 18th 2017, 10:41am

By the way, do your charts account for the many different body multipliers? Many hits with BAs and SLRs stem from hitting people on the arms because they cross your line. This is quite a damage reduction for any weapon, too and could potentially screw with your rankings.

CobaltRose

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Thursday, May 18th 2017, 7:48pm

Quoted from "Veritable"

Still, if you're Scout, and you're moving closely together with my squad, and you're not using the Pedersen (and of course you're not; look at that usage stats lol), PLEASE run with the Frommer Stop out. Thanks!

1) do I need to show you the sights again?

2) you said you have basically no experience with Scout so do this for me: try running around with a C93 only. See how it fares up close against anyone that is running an actual weapon and not some cockamamie science project. Spoilers: it doesn't work.

3) the Stop isn't much better. The higher fire rate helps but 7+1 capacity doesn't help. It's just "dump the magazine and hope you land at least four shots."

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Quoted from "Spectacle"

I once tried to burn a bridge, but due to the half-assed levolution implementation it kept standing up just fine.

Quoted from "DeathOfTheDodo"

Compared to the MTAR, the PDR has the TTK of your average pack of cigarettes.

The World Champion, on the Tactical Light:

Quoted from "The World Champion"

"Oh don't mind me, I'm just out of ammo and I'll just POCKET SUN!!!!"

Quoted from "Sheepnub"

What can't be changed can be banned.

Quoted from "Gummybear"

I'm completely serious. Well, seriously insane actually

Quoted from "xESxMaver1ck911"

If only more people left the wheel chair, adjustable hospital bed, and crutches behind and played HC. (aka Regen, Minimap, Killcam)

Quoted from "hunturk"

Natalia Poklonskaya:
Putin the cute in prosecute since 2014.

Quoted from "DeathOfTheDodo"

I can't look at my own avatar without having to pee. GG Me. GG.

Quoted from "DeathOfTheDodo"

I swear to god if you reply with a picture of the AEK I'll mail you a buttplug shaped like one.

Quoted from "Nick 30075"

The one time when "it's only three inches" is a good thing.

Quoted from "MsMuchLove"

Quoted from "RRR3186"

How do you guys control your FAMAS burst length since it fires its mag in just 1,5 seconds))

I consider each magazine a burst. :/

Quoted from "ViperFTW"

This is Symthic, we don't do "feels" around here

This post by "Veritable" (Thursday, May 18th 2017, 8:35pm) has been deleted by the author himself (Friday, February 2nd 2018, 12:19am)

lope_a_dope

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Friday, May 19th 2017, 2:23am

I've been playing scout and support most of my BF1 career, and from experience before it got buffed, it sucked horribly. I'll have to give it another try later.
I've really started using and loving the Russian 1895 Trench lately. It hits hard within 35m with decent accuracy. I REALLY like it for my aggressive scout loadout, since I'm right with the assaults in my squad. If an enemy takes damage from another source, you can get a bodyshot kill pretty much every time.

I'm going to try out the suggested scout loadout this Friday night. I will admit that capturing the most objectives as a scout is already a hobby of mine on domination, as well as bayonet kills.

I love the math behind the statistics
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marbleduck

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Friday, May 19th 2017, 4:03am

I find that your methodology better matches what practice tells me this time around. Gud post.

If you force <13m engagement distances the Frommer works just fine. Don't listen to Cobalt. The problem arises at the many ranges at which the Frommer is not competen, and the rifle is not either.

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Carlos Danger

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Friday, May 19th 2017, 10:18am

Couple things I'd be interested in:

Stats need to account for magazine size somehow. If they don't, weapons like the MG15 - which has an enormous magazine and a long reload time - are getting unfairly punished in the rankings.

Also, I'd be interested in seeing stats for weapon performance against a 200HP opponent (or two 100HP opponents) as well as a 67HP opponent (let's say the target got wounded in a previous engagement).

Additionally, I'd be interested in seeing weapon performances at ~10M and ~75M.

And last, it would be really cool if you could create an aggregate statistic that serves as an average of all the other statistics (so a weapon's average performance using samples from multiple ranges and different health values).

Thing is, your statistics give a very good idea of a weapon's performance in 1v1 dual situation - which is important information. But that's not always suggestive of a weapon's overall effectiveness, simply because in-game situations are never controlled.

VincentNZ

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Friday, May 19th 2017, 10:21am

Yeah this is true, as I said even body modifiers play a huge role for some weapon classes in terms of output, and yeah more often than not in this game you are at lower health and with 64 players you are bound to meet more people. However I do not know how you could possibly include this in a statistic other than with some obscure modifier that is likely not very accurate.

Drake

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Friday, May 19th 2017, 2:06pm

Thanks for posting that, it was a fun read.

I am curious about what makes the Model 10-A hunter worse in every category then the Sjögren ? Im particularly surprised its worse in the PFTO stances since its typically a 1 shot kill in that range.

I guess ive been using the wrong shotgun.

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