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CobaltRose

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11

Thursday, May 18th 2017, 4:59am

Author's Comments

#1 About the "Pedersen Device" as the overall pick for Scout Primary, and the Scout Class having Secondaries generally ranked AHEAD of Primaries (such as the Frommer Stop being crowned as Best Scout Anything)....

I will admit that I have basically no experience playing as Scout in BF1. So, I'm afraid I cannot speak from actual in-game experience. ...

So, am I saying that, IMO (for whatever it's worth), "relevant" Scouts in BF1 should use the Experimental as their Primary? I guess I am. Others, insisting on using "sweetspot rifles," then should run around with the Frommer Stop as their "primary," only pulling out the rifle for "sweetspot" engagements.

Besides, the Experimental, even at 100m, shooting 2x 6RB + 1x 2RB (14rnds total), still gets to 100dmg Target WAY faster than the Martini-Henry (who shoots 2x 1RB). 2.8s vs. 4.783333333s.
I have 28 service stars with the Scout class so I can chime in on this (suck it, duck!). While I do agree that the sweet-spot rifles are inconsistent as all hell, as I stated in the original thread the Pedersen doesn't sit right with me.

For a non-video game example, I'd like to bring up NFL New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady. Brady didn't get drafted until the sixth round (199th overall out of 254 selected in the 2000 draft) because his stats at the combine weren't the greatest. Too slow, meh arm strength, not-so-decent accuracy, etc. However, he has sat at the top of the league for over a decade and a half due to the things that the experts of the league couldn't measure. His tenacity, pocket presence and ability to read a defense before the snap made him an offensive terror, and with defensive mastermind Bill Belichick as his coach has created a sixteen-year dynasty that

Why do I bring this up? Simple: the Pedersen is the exact opposite of that. On paper it kicks the snot out of the sweet-spot rifles. You say that the pistols beat out the sniper rifles in your comparisons, and since the Pedersen is basically a C93 in carbine form with quadruple the mag size it fits right in with that. However, the stuff you can't see in the stats really come to be its downfall: namely, its sights. The normal 1903 sights are great (even if the post shroud is a bit thick), the Pedersen device blocks a lot of your view around the target.

See here

Point of aim is the top of the post.


In the past one could work around this: for example, the FAMAS's Famous Amos Hipfire Cookies until you could unlock the Reflex Sight. However in BF1 where everything is preset for you, there's no magical optical sights for the Pedersen. Its hipfire is meh at best (though I guess having a bayonet on it doesn't help, whoops), and its combined damage and fire rate makes spamming more difficult (think Auto 8 Extended if it needed an extra bullet to kill to start, then needed three extra bullets to kill by the time it hits 35m).

Your numbers take this into account and still give it the nod, but they also overlook another (actually statistical) problem: muzzle velocity. Sure, .30-18 Automatic isn't exactly a firebrand of a cartridge and 410m/s is actually a little on the hot side compared to real life, but is still miserable when trying to hit a moving target. Very rarely will a target be stationary within your effective range, and having to land eight shots at 35m while your target is doing a drunken Mexican Hat Dance with their not-an-oversized-pistol is straight-up suicide.
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Compared to the MTAR, the PDR has the TTK of your average pack of cigarettes.

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What can't be changed can be banned.

I'm completely serious. Well, seriously insane actually :P

If only more people left the wheel chair, adjustable hospital bed, and crutches behind and played HC. (aka Regen, Minimap, Killcam)

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I swear to god if you reply with a picture of the AEK I'll mail you a buttplug shaped like one.

The one time when "it's only three inches" is a good thing.

How do you guys control your FAMAS burst length since it fires its mag in just 1,5 seconds))
I consider each magazine a burst. :/

This is Symthic, we don't do "feels" around here ;)



  • "Veritable" started this thread

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12

Thursday, May 18th 2017, 6:07am

Its hipfire is meh at best

Eh, its Hipfire values are 1.667 / 2.668, which are better than non-Trench Medic Rifles. In terms of pure Hipfire performance, I think you'd still beat guys using the "full-size" SLRs (Mondragon / M1916 / 1906). With a bit worse luck in terms of H-Recoil on his part, you might even take down a M1907 Factory user.

But yeah, I have a full 50% of "Stances" within 15m, because people keep telling me that #1 the vast majority of registered kills occur within 20m and #2 people who shoot at other people beyond that range are not PTFO and thus are idiots.

I have mixed feelings about that, thus extending ADS Moving "Stances" to 60m and ADS Not Moving to 100m. That makes the "average" in this study to be 37m, which STILL doesn't do the Scout "sweetspot" rifles any favours, that I admit.

Still, if you're Scout, and you're moving closely together with my squad, and you're not using the Pedersen (and of course you're not; look at that usage stats lol), PLEASE run with the Frommer Stop out. Thanks! :P

I will say, though. The other night I went to Single Player -> The Runner -> Cape Helle to get 10x Headshots for the codex entry. The SMLE Carbine? Is nice. I'd whole-heartedly recommend that (and I do in the Long Range ranking). All-kits, please! None of that "Back to Basic" BS.

muzzle velocity

I do have that, but just 5% of the total, 50pts out of 1000. So, compared to the Gewehr 98, I docked the Experimental ~27pts.

VincentNZ

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13

Thursday, May 18th 2017, 10:41am

By the way, do your charts account for the many different body multipliers? Many hits with BAs and SLRs stem from hitting people on the arms because they cross your line. This is quite a damage reduction for any weapon, too and could potentially screw with your rankings.

CobaltRose

I'll be there... around every corner... in every empty room...

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Thursday, May 18th 2017, 7:48pm

Still, if you're Scout, and you're moving closely together with my squad, and you're not using the Pedersen (and of course you're not; look at that usage stats lol), PLEASE run with the Frommer Stop out. Thanks! :P
1) do I need to show you the sights again?

2) you said you have basically no experience with Scout so do this for me: try running around with a C93 only. See how it fares up close against anyone that is running an actual weapon and not some cockamamie science project. Spoilers: it doesn't work.

3) the Stop isn't much better. The higher fire rate helps but 7+1 capacity doesn't help. It's just "dump the magazine and hope you land at least four shots."
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

Memorable Quotes

I once tried to burn a bridge, but due to the half-assed levolution implementation it kept standing up just fine.

Compared to the MTAR, the PDR has the TTK of your average pack of cigarettes.

The World Champion, on the Tactical Light:
"Oh don't mind me, I'm just out of ammo and I'll just POCKET SUN!!!!"

What can't be changed can be banned.

I'm completely serious. Well, seriously insane actually :P

If only more people left the wheel chair, adjustable hospital bed, and crutches behind and played HC. (aka Regen, Minimap, Killcam)

Natalia Poklonskaya:
Putin the cute in prosecute since 2014.

I can't look at my own avatar without having to pee. GG Me. GG.

I swear to god if you reply with a picture of the AEK I'll mail you a buttplug shaped like one.

The one time when "it's only three inches" is a good thing.

How do you guys control your FAMAS burst length since it fires its mag in just 1,5 seconds))
I consider each magazine a burst. :/

This is Symthic, we don't do "feels" around here ;)



  • "Veritable" started this thread

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15

Thursday, May 18th 2017, 8:35pm

you said you have basically no experience with Scout so do this for me: try running around with a C93 only. See how it fares up close against anyone that is running an actual weapon and not some cockamamie science project. Spoilers: it doesn't work.

Oh, but I do have experience with Medic, and if we're fighting each other on the flag burn, and I have the Mondragon / M1916 / 1906 / RSC in my hands, namely big and clunky "battle-rifle"-sized slow-firing bad-hipfire things, I lose to pretty much ANY pistol... UNLESS I was already ADS and only needing to cover a narrow area, which means I had lots of help. 1v1 and I have no idea where you are? I'm screwed.

I got 1SS with the RSC 1917 Optical. High Accuracy (just over 40%), but extremely low KpM (0.6, which is terribad, even for me). Result, any time I'm on flags, I'm rocking the Mle M1903 instead of my primary. I can only imagine that gap widens even more, if you are burning a flag with a sweetspot "Sniper" as your primary.

And if you never intend on burning any flag? Well, again, this is 1/3 Hipfire 1/3 ADS Moving 1/3 ADS Not Moving, 2.5m to 100m with average of 37m. Maybe this list is not for you....

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16

Friday, May 19th 2017, 2:23am

I've been playing scout and support most of my BF1 career, and from experience before it got buffed, it sucked horribly. I'll have to give it another try later.
I've really started using and loving the Russian 1895 Trench lately. It hits hard within 35m with decent accuracy. I REALLY like it for my aggressive scout loadout, since I'm right with the assaults in my squad. If an enemy takes damage from another source, you can get a bodyshot kill pretty much every time.

I'm going to try out the suggested scout loadout this Friday night. I will admit that capturing the most objectives as a scout is already a hobby of mine on domination, as well as bayonet kills.
I love the math behind the statistics
It's possible to find me online at almost any given time, due to the fact that my schedule is hectic and rather non-existent.

Who needs sleep anyways?
(PC/PS4 gamer)

Various bf4 spreadsheets: (nothing special, just raw data from the Symthic website put into a spreadsheet to analyze all values at once)

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General Weapon spreadsheet:
BF4_Weapons_enhanced_UPDATED_2016
Soldier Equipment:
BF4_Gadget_Damage
Interactive Damage Table
bf4_dmg_at_range - Google Sheets
Unsuppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Charts
bf4_sniper_guide
Suppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Charts
Suppressed bf4_sniper_guide
More user friendly Unsuppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Chart
Friendlier Sniper rifle Bullet Drop Chart
More user friendly Suppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Chart
Friendlier Suppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Chart

marbleduck

Smoked Salmon Best Salmon

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17

Friday, May 19th 2017, 4:03am

I find that your methodology better matches what practice tells me this time around. Gud post.

If you force <13m engagement distances the Frommer works just fine. Don't listen to Cobalt. The problem arises at the many ranges at which the Frommer is not competen, and the rifle is not either.

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Friday, May 19th 2017, 10:18am

Couple things I'd be interested in:

Stats need to account for magazine size somehow. If they don't, weapons like the MG15 - which has an enormous magazine and a long reload time - are getting unfairly punished in the rankings.

Also, I'd be interested in seeing stats for weapon performance against a 200HP opponent (or two 100HP opponents) as well as a 67HP opponent (let's say the target got wounded in a previous engagement).

Additionally, I'd be interested in seeing weapon performances at ~10M and ~75M.

And last, it would be really cool if you could create an aggregate statistic that serves as an average of all the other statistics (so a weapon's average performance using samples from multiple ranges and different health values).

Thing is, your statistics give a very good idea of a weapon's performance in 1v1 dual situation - which is important information. But that's not always suggestive of a weapon's overall effectiveness, simply because in-game situations are never controlled.

VincentNZ

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Friday, May 19th 2017, 10:21am

Yeah this is true, as I said even body modifiers play a huge role for some weapon classes in terms of output, and yeah more often than not in this game you are at lower health and with 64 players you are bound to meet more people. However I do not know how you could possibly include this in a statistic other than with some obscure modifier that is likely not very accurate.

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Friday, May 19th 2017, 2:06pm

Thanks for posting that, it was a fun read.

I am curious about what makes the Model 10-A hunter worse in every category then the Sjögren ? Im particularly surprised its worse in the PFTO stances since its typically a 1 shot kill in that range.

I guess ive been using the wrong shotgun.