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Improving class role effectiveness: Increasing the availability of both fundamental player to player interactions as well as situational gadgets. (Suggestion)

Posts: 3,292

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: Arizona, USA

Reputation modifier: 15

Sunday, May 21st 2017, 7:40am

Kills for unlocks isn't ALL bad though as it can encourage players to try out something they may have otherwise never considered using, case in point:

Quoted from "Spectacle"

So, it turns out that I was wrong, I actually had a lot of fun getting the 300 kills with the 1906 factory. It was a bit frustrating to start off when I felt like I couldn't see where I was shooting, but I decided to take it easy and not worry to much about how I was performing or if we were winning or losing. After a few rounds of terrible play I started to get the hang of the gun and found it quite enjoyable, and a very effective tool in the right situation. There's barely any recoil or spread at any relevant range, it's just point and click to kill. The only problem is that some targets are too far away to effectively aim at with iron sights. In the end unlocking the 1906 Sniper was so worth it, the telescopic sight makes taking advantage of the gun's accuray so much easier. I haven't had time to use it that much yet, but it's looking to be my new favorite medic gun!
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Source code

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AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
AccelerationDamping 4.0
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SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2
SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

Source code

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AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
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DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

Source code

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Quoted from "Zer0Cod3x"

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2\$ tho

Posts: 890

Date of registration
: Dec 3rd 2014

Platform: PS4

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 10

Sunday, May 21st 2017, 1:21pm

Quoted from "VincentNZ"

How does one use mortars and limpets for personal gain? using a limpet almost amounts to a suicide bombing. There's only a few situations where mortars are effective, and using them leaves you utterly helpless. Unless you're using them for other than PTO, but then how're you going to kill anyone? It's not like a scout who can sit 200m off an objective or play an enemy spawn area.

Well, for "farming" kills. That is personal gain, you enhance your own killing potential at the cost of direct teamplay value. Many here argue that the act of killing is a teamwork oriented act, but I can not agree with that assessment, due to human nature. There are people who jump into vehicles to turn the round and start winning but mostly it is a way to boost stats. Oh people like winning, but if you are doing good and have a high K/D that is usually more preferable than having many points or winning the round.
This applies to loadouts as well, although tankmayving is right that the syringe is indeed a boost for points and that is a small incentive. If the AT grenade was a Medic gadget though or the Rifle grenade would easily get more kills, most players would drop the syringe and not the pouch. The syringe has, apart from points, only a teamwork value, and a potentially risky one.

It is similar with the Limpet and the Mortar if you do not have ammo equipped. Your mindset will be to increase your killing potential for personal gain, not because you can then turn the round for your team. This is how you use the limpet, too. I guess you would think twice about risking your life to damage a full health tank, but you are more ready to throw it onto a damaged tank, because the point and kill gain is huge.
With the mortar you are also relative safe in using because it is indirect and ranged, so you use it to get kills our of an advantageous position. Clearing a flag or saving teammates is just a byproduct, and it can not be measured.

Well, yeah, if you're going to play support, resupply is pretty much a given.

The mortar can be abused. I'm branching out more but probably played 90% support till now. I probably abused the mortar early on, till I discovered there just aren't that many places where it's effective. I play Front Lines a lot and there's one or two places where it can be a devastating defensive weapon.

But it's not much good unless the scouts spot. The scouts can't spot much unless support resupplies them with flares. So there's circular player interaction, I guess:-)

It's kinda hard to abuse the limpet, unless you're neglecting team needs try try & get kills to unlock the Huot optical (no thank you!). But that's going to happen in every class as players want to complete assignments to unlock the latest DLC weapons (enough with the Hellriegls & Martinis already!). That by itself encourages non-team play.

I should add that since playing scout a little more in Front Lines lately, the importance of re supply has really hit home. Team succuesss required near-continual spotting, and two flares don't go very far. So when you see your scout, drop him some supplies.

My Mortar tip for the day would be to do your own spotting with a smoke mortar first to see where enemies are before using the proper shells. That said, I do find people are much better at spotting in this game, probably due to scout being quite lethal and the spotting flare being used so widely. Another trick is to duck out of cover and spam the spot buttong before setting up the mortar. I find it is nearly indispensable as a support gadget.

I only really use my close range loadout on argonne and fort veux where I use the frag crossbow instead. Other than that it's just ammo box + whichever mortar will be most useful atm. I don't know what you mean about it not being effective. Considering objectives force players to bunch up in most modes. Not to mention the HE mortar's lethal power against vehicles and buildings. It certainly isn't as broken as it was at launch, even I'll admit it was pretty ridiculous. I think they have its power just right now.

Salt Miner

Posts: 3,695

Date of registration
: Mar 19th 2014

Platform: Xbox One

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 16

Sunday, May 21st 2017, 7:24pm

Quoted from "JSLICE20"

Kills for unlocks isn't ALL bad though as it can encourage players to try out something they may have otherwise never considered using, case in point:

Ah, I don't disagree here, I should have clarified that it would still be through kill-based score, the difference is really just that all kill assists, as well as bonuses like headshots or suppression would count as well. It would therefore be 30,000 points, but instead of a hard 300 kills, you could get it a little bit earlier than that by getting a lot of kill assists, headshots, and suppression assists.
Who Enjoys, Wins

Posts: 2,015

Date of registration
: Jan 12th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 14

Monday, May 22nd 2017, 10:46pm

Quoted from "JSLICE20"

Kills for unlocks isn't ALL bad though as it can encourage players to try out something they may have otherwise never considered using, case in point:

Ah, I don't disagree here, I should have clarified that it would still be through kill-based score, the difference is really just that all kill assists, as well as bonuses like headshots or suppression would count as well. It would therefore be 30,000 points, but instead of a hard 300 kills, you could get it a little bit earlier than that by getting a lot of kill assists, headshots, and suppression assists.

IMO grind-locked content is gaming cancer.

PvF 2017 Champion

Posts: 7,304

Date of registration
: Apr 3rd 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

Monday, May 22nd 2017, 10:57pm

@tankmayvin

Unfortunately, a major portion of players these days enjoy that very cancer and play almost solely for it.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

"Skill" may indeed be the most magical of words. Chant it well enough and any desire can be yours.

Are you a scrub?

Quoted from "blahdy"

If it flies, it diesÂ.

Salt Miner

Posts: 3,695

Date of registration
: Mar 19th 2014

Platform: Xbox One

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 16

Tuesday, May 23rd 2017, 12:37am

Having goals in a game, like things to unlock, is what keeps people motivated to play and is not bad. But it's also not some binary thing where they're either unlocked by default or locked behind a grind of hundreds of kills. Plenty of middle ground exists.

Not only are these assignments grindy and excessive for what they are, they're also incredibly uninspired and boring. Being both long and grindy while also not being fun or interesting is literally the worst combination you can use, and it's very easy to demotivate players this way.

The other major flaw is by forcing use of the same gun for 300 kills, that gun is exactly what people won't want to use once they get it. BF4's Weapon Crate DLC was both free and unlocked by default, but the advantage of BF4's unlock system was that you had to get kills with an individual gun to get its unlocks; this both gave people their weapons right away while also maintaining a goal/thing to do with them once they have them. In BF1, you're stuck getting multiple hundreds of kills with the same gun with different attachments, just to get that alternate attachment version. You've done all the work with something you don't want to be using, and now you both don't want to use the new one and also don't have any reason to use it.

If they want to keep assignments, all DLC weapons (packs or standalone) should be unlocked by default, and the assignments should be about using those new weapons.
Who Enjoys, Wins

Holy War? No Thanks.

Posts: 2,838

Date of registration
: Jul 25th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 16

Tuesday, May 23rd 2017, 11:02am

There is a difference between grinding and a goal. They have shown that assignments can be fun, inventive and incentivizing. Getting a melee, pistol and defib kill was certainly the most fun assignment, and shooting down five Helis with an RPG was very rewarding.

Yeah they were frustrating at times, but you could always pad the assignments if you wanted to, and they were still less time consuming for the average player as these grinding assignments we have now. 300 kills with a weapon can range from 6h-12h playtime with a kpm of 1.0-0.5. That is quite a time investment with one weapon, just to unlock a an attachment. Now you could argue that in BF4 you would need 300 kills as well for a full set of attachments but there are distinct difference. First of all you had battlepacks to unlock at least some things before hand, then weapons worked fine without any attachments and a full set's effect was marginal. You also gained the scope with ten kills which is the most important piece. And then there is the fact that DICE marketed the variants not as attachments, but as new weapons, so that is what they are perceived as. And spending +6 hours straight doing only one thing is very tiring.

Stuff like shooting five helicoptres with an RPG is also stuff that does not conflict with your general playstyle at all. It did not hinder your own flow of the game. You had the RPG anyway, so you might just as well shoot it at the guy flying by. It just happened. Here you are forced to do 300 kills with the Selbstlader, a gun that you might not like to get a straight upgrade for it. That is indeed a meaningless grind.

Posts: 103

Date of registration
: Mar 4th 2017

Platform: PS4

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 2

Tuesday, May 23rd 2017, 9:47pm

Quoted from "BleedingUranium"

like Health & Health or Ammo & Ammo

There's nothing wrong with specializing into healing or replenishment.

That set up allows you to heal both stationary and moving players.

Quoted from "BleedingUranium"

not just because they're skipping teamplay for self-serving tools, but because those offensive tools aren't really good setups together.

There is more to teamplay than throwing replenishment items at each other.

And

I've never considered going without ammo pack or cratet, but a limpet & mortar could complement each other very nicely. Limpet for armor or blowing out walls, mortar for when the enemy bunches up, Swap one or the other for when there's lots of close range action in tunnels or bunkers (Fort De Vaux)

Posts: 2,015

Date of registration
: Jan 12th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 14

Tuesday, May 23rd 2017, 9:55pm

HE Xbow plus limpet makes a lot more sense.

Posts: 270

Date of registration
: Jun 5th 2015

Platform: Xbox One

Location: Hoth

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 8

Sunday, June 4th 2017, 6:13pm

The current system is fine in concept. The issues stem from gadgets beig lame or unbalanced.

Having the avbility to specialize allows for more interesting teamwork. Coordinating roles and playing to their strength is a lot of fun. If every Medic carried almost the same gadget then everyone can basically play the same role, reducing the need for- and effectiveness of coordination.

A slot based system was suggested too. As it limits some combos (e.g. HE x and limpet as tankmayvin mentioned, double meds, or flare+periscope, or ...) it does reduce possible team compositions, and consequently the depth of the teamwork.

(I understand what you meant BU by creating more variety trough disallowing the most powerful combos, but I'd rather balance gadgets with the current system in mind)

Also, I don't think slots will ever happen because high agency seems is a pretty core design principle by now.

One of the most fun rounds I had in Bf4 was when me and a friend both played as Recon, one specializing into more of a range based, careful playstyle (DMR, motion sensor balls and spawn beacon) the other into CQB (Carbine, balls, C4? long time ago, but something like that). Even though it was the same kit, we specialized into and maintaned our roles for devastating effect. All the info (from gadgets and overwatch provided by the DMR-guy) allowed us to delegate targets to the one who was in the best position to kill them.

Of course, it wasn't really teamwork as no support ever resupplied us.

signature 2.3

Omit Needless Words

Things I support

ammo regen pls

_____

Quoted from "Skanic"

When I play with it [Autoloading 8] I feel like I am batman taking out 1 after 1 baddie while they feel helpless and don't know who is talking out their mates.

Quoted from "TheSkillCommittee"

Remove 3D spotting. ItÂs a mechanic that rewards bad eyesight.

Quoted from "Rezal"

Wanna help your team by sneaking through enemy territory to provide spawns? THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK FGT I HOPE YOU RUN OUT OF MOTION BALLS TOO EARLY TO BE SUCCESSFUL
Wanna be Javelin squad but only have two guys? BETTER NOT GET YOUR SOFLAM KILLED FGT THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK WITHOUT A SUPPORT DUDE DROPPING AMMO ON YOU EVERY 2 MINUTES

DICE pls

Minor console QoL improvements
Ping Tool idea
Spotting suggestions
Squad priority vehicle system (and anti stealing suggestion)

Posts I should finish sometime:
Scoring system flaws (and concept)
Battlefield definition
Flow, immersion and fun in battlefield
Specializations: ideas and system rework