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NoctyrneSAGA

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51

Friday, May 19th 2017, 5:45pm

And no, I don't think the Behemoth needs more influence or should even be in the game right now. If Behemoths fail to serve a meaningful purpose, especially since the original Beta CQL scoring system was changed, then it should be removed. That's not going to happen unfortunately because of Sunken Cost fallacy reasons.


It's not the Sunken Cost fallacy though? There's nothing stopping DICE from actually turning off the Behemoth or tweaking it.

The Behemoth is there because it's designed as a comeback mechanic, same as rage. What's wrong with that? We should be preventing lame duck situations.

If it's not doing its job in facilitating comebacks, then quite obviously it should be tweaked so that it can.

We have a clear point in time where CQ and Behemoths went from something that worked into something that didn't.

I believe in the opposite, or at least letting them have the option of running "unconventional" gadget setups while still allowing them to replenish teammates in a limited ability (Hardline interactions).


Now you really gave them no reason to run replenishment items since they can have extra damage and still be somewhat capable of replenishing.

How is a bushwookie who spends a 30 minute game on top of mountain away from a nearby objective, who could care less if it's capped by the enemy or not as long as he gets kills, comparable to someone who squats inside the enemy's gimme all game and is responsible for them constantly being -1 on an "easily" acquired flag?


I am merely pointing out how your place on the scoreboard is not truly reflective of your contribution.

Teamplay that is not recognised as such is not teamplay at all, people count a kill as a kill and not as a ticket. You look at your K/D ratio, not at your Ticket/Ticket ratio.


Teamplay that is not recognized as such is not teamplay at all, people count a heal as points and not as a heal. You look at your score, not your heals.

Completely false by the way.

As I've said before, recognition has no bearing on value. Nor does it change that you are making a contribution to your team.

Especially since killing has as much value and sometimes more than flag ticks do in the current CQ format.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "NoctyrneSAGA" (May 19th 2017, 5:54pm)


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52

Friday, May 19th 2017, 6:14pm

>Mfw Scouts and Artillery Trucks are meant to cap flags


Artillery truck should 100% be falling back to prevent back-caps and/or clearing back caps, which generally involves driving up near or on radius. The whole point of that vehicle is mobile interdiction. It doesn't have the armor nor the shoot and scoot ability to be a viable offensive vehicle, but it's easily the best defensive/overwatch vehicle in the game.

If you're just sitting around in one spot with that thing the whole game you're losing it's second biggest advantage, speed.

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53

Friday, May 19th 2017, 7:32pm

If it's not doing its job in facilitating comebacks, then quite obviously it should be tweaked so that it can.

We have a clear point in time where CQ and Behemoths went from something that worked into something that didn't.

I'd really like to see the beta CQ system with current behemoths implemented. I'm willing to bet that the same result will occur; Behemoths again having negligible impact on the outcome of the match, due to the driver seat being occupied by morons the vast majority of times.


If you want to make Behemoths actually give a viable chance of launching a comeback, that has to be addressed first. This is a huge balancing can of worms when it comes to making them completely viable without being too overbearing to the winning team. Honestly, TSNP handled Behemoths the best on Verdun Heights and Fort De Vaux, where they just gave the losing team 4 Elite kits and called it a day instead of compromising map design to allow some train or airship to awkwardly exist.


Quoted

Now you really gave them no reason to run replenishment items since they can have extra damage and still be somewhat capable of replenishing.

Unfortunately, you might be right. Honestly, even with deployable replenishment gadgets far outweighing teammate interactions, I think people will still continue to run pure damage focused "support" classes. Maybe Supports should be hard locked to carrying an ammo gadget at all times, and Rifle Grenades completely removed from Medics and given to Support instead.

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Friday, May 19th 2017, 7:53pm

If it's not doing its job in facilitating comebacks, then quite obviously it should be tweaked so that it can.

We have a clear point in time where CQ and Behemoths went from something that worked into something that didn't.

I'd really like to see the beta CQ system with current behemoths implemented. I'm willing to bet that the same result will occur; Behemoths again having negligible impact on the outcome of the match, due to the driver seat being occupied by morons the vast majority of times.



It also really depends on the behemonth and the map in particular.

If it's the blimp the opposition can stack a shitload of fire against it. Tank MGs deal heavy damage, plus all of the other emplacements all around the map and planes can bring it down incredibly quickly regardless of pilot/gunner skills.

For the train, it can only really contest a single flag at a time and only very specific flags, so it's equivalent to the team gaining +1 tank permanently in the field until destruction.

Dred is a pure dakka platform and requires good spotting, the enemy blobbing, and infantry actually piling on cleared flags to do anything.

The char is interesting but it's so slow that it can also only really contest 1 flag at a time and can be easily kited around. I've driven the charr precisely once and it just got slowly picked apart by assaults with RGs because the rest of the crew was weak and the team wasn't really doing anything other than hiding around the trenches near A flag on rupture. I got a decent number of kills pushing the C flag but round ended. Farming potential of the driver seat isn't very good because of gun ROF so you really need to rely on the MGs and ass mounted autocannon turret, so it's basically a giant landship in terms of how it plays. Not super effective, just very hardy.

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55

Saturday, May 20th 2017, 12:16am

How does one use mortars and limpets for personal gain? using a limpet almost amounts to a suicide bombing. There's only a few situations where mortars are effective, and using them leaves you utterly helpless. Unless you're using them for other than PTO, but then how're you going to kill anyone? It's not like a scout who can sit 200m off an objective or play an enemy spawn area.


Well, for "farming" kills. That is personal gain, you enhance your own killing potential at the cost of direct teamplay value. Many here argue that the act of killing is a teamwork oriented act, but I can not agree with that assessment, due to human nature. There are people who jump into vehicles to turn the round and start winning but mostly it is a way to boost stats. Oh people like winning, but if you are doing good and have a high K/D that is usually more preferable than having many points or winning the round.
This applies to loadouts as well, although tankmayving is right that the syringe is indeed a boost for points and that is a small incentive. If the AT grenade was a Medic gadget though or the Rifle grenade would easily get more kills, most players would drop the syringe and not the pouch. The syringe has, apart from points, only a teamwork value, and a potentially risky one.

It is similar with the Limpet and the Mortar if you do not have ammo equipped. Your mindset will be to increase your killing potential for personal gain, not because you can then turn the round for your team. This is how you use the limpet, too. I guess you would think twice about risking your life to damage a full health tank, but you are more ready to throw it onto a damaged tank, because the point and kill gain is huge.
With the mortar you are also relative safe in using because it is indirect and ranged, so you use it to get kills our of an advantageous position. Clearing a flag or saving teammates is just a byproduct, and it can not be measured.


Well, yeah, if you're going to play support, resupply is pretty much a given.

The mortar can be abused. I'm branching out more but probably played 90% support till now. I probably abused the mortar early on, till I discovered there just aren't that many places where it's effective. I play Front Lines a lot and there's one or two places where it can be a devastating defensive weapon.

But it's not much good unless the scouts spot. The scouts can't spot much unless support resupplies them with flares. So there's circular player interaction, I guess:-)

It's kinda hard to abuse the limpet, unless you're neglecting team needs try try & get kills to unlock the Huot optical (no thank you!). But that's going to happen in every class as players want to complete assignments to unlock the latest DLC weapons (enough with the Hellriegls & Martinis already!). That by itself encourages non-team play.

I should add that since playing scout a little more in Front Lines lately, the importance of re supply has really hit home. Team succuesss required near-continual spotting, and two flares don't go very far. So when you see your scout, drop him some supplies.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "OldBFAddict" (May 20th 2017, 6:46pm)


NoctyrneSAGA

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56

Saturday, May 20th 2017, 12:25am

@tankmayvin

I've had several facepalms with the Dred both as its operator and as infantry. I've been behind the wheel shouting at infantry to capture demolished flags and I've been the lone capper pushing flags the Dred is firing on. Needless to say, I get many thanks from competent Dreadnought operators looking for someone to capitalize on what they're doing.

The Char 2C has a turn radius the size of Jupiter.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

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57

Saturday, May 20th 2017, 12:26pm

@tankmayvin

I've had several facepalms with the Dred both as its operator and as infantry. I've been behind the wheel shouting at infantry to capture demolished flags and I've been the lone capper pushing flags the Dred is firing on. Needless to say, I get many thanks from competent Dreadnought operators looking for someone to capitalize on what they're doing.

The Char 2C has a turn radius the size of Jupiter.


How is the Char as a behemoth? I am yet to ever get a chance to use it. It seems like it should be potent, with the ability to cap any flag and obliterate enemy tanks, but it never seems to do much when on the enemy team. I usually just sick back getting easy direct hits with the HE mortar. I'm never sure if the vehicle itself is bad or if my opponents just suck.

What weapons does it even have. It seems to have an autocannon and a big main gun, but is that it?

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Saturday, May 20th 2017, 11:23pm

@tankmayvin

I've had several facepalms with the Dred both as its operator and as infantry. I've been behind the wheel shouting at infantry to capture demolished flags and I've been the lone capper pushing flags the Dred is firing on. Needless to say, I get many thanks from competent Dreadnought operators looking for someone to capitalize on what they're doing.

The Char 2C has a turn radius the size of Jupiter.


How is the Char as a behemoth? I am yet to ever get a chance to use it. It seems like it should be potent, with the ability to cap any flag and obliterate enemy tanks, but it never seems to do much when on the enemy team. I usually just sick back getting easy direct hits with the HE mortar. I'm never sure if the vehicle itself is bad or if my opponents just suck.

What weapons does it even have. It seems to have an autocannon and a big main gun, but is that it?


It's very slow and very hard to turn which means it's very ineffective in capping flags since it'll lose anything it isn't sitting on, and it takes so long to move to another flag it cannot really turn the round around because it can't collect tickets with any speed.

It's a serious threat to tanks though, easy gun ballistics and generally one hit to disable. So enough to shut down the enemy armor or send the shit bucket tankers hiding or forcing them to play conservative.

It's got the main gun, the tail autocannon and three manchine gun blisters (one in the front, one in each front track sponson).

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59

Sunday, May 21st 2017, 6:43am

If it's not doing its job in facilitating comebacks, then quite obviously it should be tweaked so that it can.

We have a clear point in time where CQ and Behemoths went from something that worked into something that didn't.

I'd really like to see the beta CQ system with current behemoths implemented. I'm willing to bet that the same result will occur; Behemoths again having negligible impact on the outcome of the match, due to the driver seat being occupied by morons the vast majority of times.


If you want to make Behemoths actually give a viable chance of launching a comeback, that has to be addressed first. This is a huge balancing can of worms when it comes to making them completely viable without being too overbearing to the winning team. Honestly, TSNP handled Behemoths the best on Verdun Heights and Fort De Vaux, where they just gave the losing team 4 Elite kits and called it a day instead of compromising map design to allow some train or airship to awkwardly exist.


Quoted

Now you really gave them no reason to run replenishment items since they can have extra damage and still be somewhat capable of replenishing.

Unfortunately, you might be right. Honestly, even with deployable replenishment gadgets far outweighing teammate interactions, I think people will still continue to run pure damage focused "support" classes. Maybe Supports should be hard locked to carrying an ammo gadget at all times, and Rifle Grenades completely removed from Medics and given to Support instead.




Level 50 support here and I never leave home without it. I love getting the Ks but winning comes first. The DLC with the auto-indicator sure helps.

I saw a remark earlier about one infantry kill being more important than ammo or health

Dropping ammo and health packs doesn't take away from my fighting ability. I play front lines mostly. Taking or holding some of the objectives is a matter of he with most explosives wins. Since assault has the best bang, it's important too keep them supplied. They also have by far the best AT loaduts. If they'll take on the armor, I'll gladly hand out the ordnance, as well as deploy a limpet or AT grenade. The average kill distance tells me assault likely gets the lions share of kills and for the most part the best CQC primaries. So it's important to keep them in the fight.

Those kills aren't much good if you're way off the objective (unless playing TDM). Simply being on the objective contributes more than 2 or 3 kills at the other end of the map. Unfortunately, dice encourages non-team play by tying unlocks to kills. An assault player isn't helping by hanging back to try & take out a tank with AT mines to unlock the new Hellriegl when the rest of the team has moved on.

Dice could help by making those class-level unlocks instead of kill-based.

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Sunday, May 21st 2017, 7:18am

Unfortunately, dice encourages non-team play by tying unlocks to kills. An assault player isn't helping by hanging back to try & take out a tank with AT mines to unlock the new Hellriegl when the rest of the team has moved on.

Dice could help by making those class-level unlocks instead of kill-based.


This is very true, and I said as much back during BF4. BF4 had vehicle and weapon unlocks be score-based, but weapon attachments were kills; attachments should have been score-based too. They should all be score-based.