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VincentNZ

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21

Wednesday, May 17th 2017, 5:37pm

But there are gadgets out there whose sole purpose it is to benefit others. You have to rely on others to get revived, which is the most obvious example. Fact is, many gagdets are used for personal gain only, and the team value is often unintentional, or incidental, because you dropped a crate and someone walked over intentionally or maybe again through coincidence.

I think incidental teamwork is still good and should be incentivized, like a gang of assaults teaming up on the tank and then dissolving again. Also the medic that throws himself in the line just to revive you, or the guy that wants to spot an enemy just to throw a pouch instead at you.
Teamwork also works both ways, if you run out of ammo, it should be easy to alert a support and if that does not help actively locate a medic for heals, revive or the support for ammo. Maybe you could even get points for being resupplied by a squadmate, or a button to alert nearby medics for help so that they get more points out of it.

BF1 does not do a good job in terms of these incetives, but increasing the number of teamwork oriented gagdets in some ways would be a good start.

  • "Dantheminigunfox" started this thread

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22

Wednesday, May 17th 2017, 7:34pm

I am not the servant of other players and if I choose to revive/heal/resupply/repair, I do it for my own reasons and not because of what name DICE gave to the class I'm playing at the moment. If I want to use a fully offensive loadout that's up to me as well. If you want heals/ammo then you could consided changing class and doing it yourself.

Alternatively;

Q = Pouch. Hold Q = Drop Pouch
Hold E = Repair (or equitable as melee weapon)
3 = Crate
4 = Any Other Gadget
5 = Any Other Gadget

This way one can go full offensive as you have stated while still having what I am convinced to be fundamental team supporting gadgets. (Healing, Repairing, Reviving, Resupply Ammo, Resupply Grenades).

Strongly believe that if beginner players are to become acquainted with team play, they might as well have the basic player to player interaction gadgets be available at all times. Then they can move on to more 'advanced' roles, such as Mortar HE vehicle leading + Limpet Charge. This should be bolstered by some sort of in game narration guide similar to BF2's narrator. 'Press the Q button to heal friendly soldiers' type of thing. This is something that Vincent seems to be alluding to :D



I also find it interesting that you said the word 'servant' :P. Its free score + improving squad mate's combat effectiveness.
I would say make medical/Ammo box/pouch a permanent tool for medic and support. But instead of taking their own slot, They are in their own slot and have key other than 3/4 on pc or left/right on console. Player can choose between box or pouch for their playstyle. For me, I would said They replace the big map with it. (big map can go back to bf4 way). As for gadget slot, I would say Medic will have syringe and support will have wrench. Both are permanently bond. Rest will be players choices.
Yea pretty much what I had in mind. Personally, if they down that route, would like the 'Press Q to Throw pouch to another soldier' remain as this is handy in many situations, e.g. Quickly resupplying Assault Anti Tank weapons, Healing Elite Classes on the move. I think the Wrench and Syringe could just be context sensitive rather than selectable, weldable items. There is no reason for them not to be, unless one is adverse to the idea of context sensitive actions or would miss murdering people with the magic syringe.

If interested look at my reply to Spectacle for the alternative system overview.

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23

Wednesday, May 17th 2017, 7:38pm

What about creating gadget slot categories? One offensive/defensive, one class specific, one support/teamplay? Each gadget would be categorized and only equip-able in the corresponding slot.

NoctyrneSAGA

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24

Wednesday, May 17th 2017, 7:43pm

Then they can move on to more 'advanced' roles, such as Mortar HE vehicle leading + Limpet Charge.


Extra damage is not particularly advanced. Then again, neither is tossing something at your teammate.
Data Browser

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With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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25

Wednesday, May 17th 2017, 8:40pm

Revives are really good points, so it really behooves players to revive where the risk is moderate even for personal gain. Healing is such a powerful ability even for yourself that it again behooves you to take a healing gadget.

The problem is really with the medic class where syringe + health gadget is so obviously more potent for scoring points/staying alive that it is a no-brainer loadout. It doesn't help that the rifle grenade is a rather poor gadget on an independent metric. IMO they are practically a false choice, and losing the syringe in favour of a second healing item, while possibly useful is IMO clearly less relevant than having a revive AND a healing tool. So medic has a lot of false choice to deal with.

Support has a much more open space for viable loadouts. HE xbow + tool for vehicle support. Limpet + ammo for close range assaults. Even mortar + xbow is viable. Smoke + box, etc. Part of that is because there is no obviously amazingballs choice. Everything is situationally useful, but nothing is as powerful as the heal+revive combo.

Recon suffers from the issue that only k bullets, flare, periscope are terribly useful. So pick 2/3 of those. I really don't understand why more people don't run k bullet + scope though.

Assault is in a similar place as support. RG + AT grens are the obvious "generic" choice, but Dynamite + mines, dynamite + at gren, etc are all viable in certain circumstances.

So really the only problem is the lower viability of medic gadgets relative to the heal+revive combo.

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26

Wednesday, May 17th 2017, 9:14pm

I have an idea of creating fifth class which would use SLRs as their primary weapon and rifle grenades + repair tool as its gadgets. Then medic class would be exclusively focused on healing stuff since rifle gadgets would no longer be available for it and at the same time it would have the same teamplay potential as it has now. A repair tool is not often seen used by supports so I don't think it would be a big nerf for this class if it was taken from it yet it doesn't solve the problem of supports running with selfish loadouts so I guess I have to come up with better idea for the support class. With the addition of fifth class in the form I proposed I think we would see more vehicles being repaired in every match. What do you think about it?

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27

Wednesday, May 17th 2017, 9:33pm

I have an idea of creating fifth class which would use SLRs as their primary weapon and rifle grenades + repair tool as its gadgets. Then medic class would be exclusively focused on healing stuff since rifle gadgets would no longer be available for it and at the same time it would have the same teamplay potential as it has now. A repair tool is not often seen used by supports so I don't think it would be a big nerf for this class if it was taken from it yet it doesn't solve the problem of supports running with selfish loadouts so I guess I have to come up with better idea for the support class. With the addition of fifth class in the form I proposed I think we would see more vehicles being repaired in every match. What do you think about it?


That's basically bringing back the "engineer" class.

People don't use the repair tool a lot because they don't want to spend time repairing blueberry vehicles. If they wanted/thought repairing random vehicles was worth the time/effort (generally the payback isn't worth it in terms of score or game winning) they would quite simply equip the repair tool. Repair tool gets a shitload of use (far more than the mortar) in coordinated squad play. The mortar leaves you straggling behind your friends, whereas limpet, ammo box, xbow, and repair tool all synergize well with squad combat. If your squad has one good tanker, almost 100% of the time a key choice is 1 support with a repair tool. It's so powerful it's mandatory, just like syringe + healing is mandatory on 1-2 medics.

The issue with your new class is the same: people simply do not want to repair vehicles and thus will never spawn into that class.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "tankmayvin" (May 17th 2017, 9:42pm)


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28

Thursday, May 18th 2017, 12:30am

How does one use mortars and limpets for personal gain? using a limpet almost amounts to a suicide bombing. There's only a few situations where mortars are effective, and using them leaves you utterly helpless. Unless you're using them for other than PTO, but then how're you going to kill anyone? It's not like a scout who can sit 200m off an objective or play an enemy spawn area.

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29

Thursday, May 18th 2017, 1:14am

What about creating gadget slot categories? One offensive/defensive, one class specific, one support/teamplay? Each gadget would be categorized and only equip-able in the corresponding slot.


I posted (basically) that on the first page. :D

Assault
Slot 1: Rocket Gun, AT Grenades
Slot 2: Dynamite, Mines

Medic
Slot 1: Syringe
Slot 2: Rifle Grenade, Health Pack, Health Box

Support
Slot 1: Limpet, Crossbow, Mortar
Slot 2: Repair Wrench, Ammo Pack, Ammo Box

Scout
Slot 1: K-Bullets, Tripwire Bombs, Shield, Decoy
Slot 2: Flare Gun, Periscope
Who has fun, wins.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "BleedingUranium" (Jun 2nd 2017, 11:12pm)


VincentNZ

Holy War? No Thanks.

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30

Thursday, May 18th 2017, 10:38am

How does one use mortars and limpets for personal gain? using a limpet almost amounts to a suicide bombing. There's only a few situations where mortars are effective, and using them leaves you utterly helpless. Unless you're using them for other than PTO, but then how're you going to kill anyone? It's not like a scout who can sit 200m off an objective or play an enemy spawn area.


Well, for "farming" kills. That is personal gain, you enhance your own killing potential at the cost of direct teamplay value. Many here argue that the act of killing is a teamwork oriented act, but I can not agree with that assessment, due to human nature. There are people who jump into vehicles to turn the round and start winning but mostly it is a way to boost stats. Oh people like winning, but if you are doing good and have a high K/D that is usually more preferable than having many points or winning the round.
This applies to loadouts as well, although tankmayving is right that the syringe is indeed a boost for points and that is a small incentive. If the AT grenade was a Medic gadget though or the Rifle grenade would easily get more kills, most players would drop the syringe and not the pouch. The syringe has, apart from points, only a teamwork value, and a potentially risky one.

It is similar with the Limpet and the Mortar if you do not have ammo equipped. Your mindset will be to increase your killing potential for personal gain, not because you can then turn the round for your team. This is how you use the limpet, too. I guess you would think twice about risking your life to damage a full health tank, but you are more ready to throw it onto a damaged tank, because the point and kill gain is huge.
With the mortar you are also relative safe in using because it is indirect and ranged, so you use it to get kills our of an advantageous position. Clearing a flag or saving teammates is just a byproduct, and it can not be measured.