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## Improving class role effectiveness: Increasing the availability of both fundamental player to player interactions as well as situational gadgets. (Suggestion)

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Posts: 6,946

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: Apr 3rd 2012

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Wednesday, May 17th 2017, 6:41am

You are confusing your like and dislike of a set-up for its actual effectiveness.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.

Are you a scrub?

### Quoted from "blahdy"

If it flies, it dies™.

Salt Miner

Posts: 3,393

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: Mar 19th 2014

Platform: Xbox One

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Wednesday, May 17th 2017, 6:48am

No. How effective or not something is is part of what should or should not be available to a player (and is being factored in), but it is not the only deciding element.
Who has fun, wins.

Posts: 107

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: Dec 20th 2016

Platform: PC

Location: Malta

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Reputation modifier: 3

Wednesday, May 17th 2017, 8:23am

### Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

If you open up a third "optional" gadget slot, what point is there in not bringing it?

This idea pretty much drastically increases the power of Medic and Support.

There is more to teamwork than tossing replenishment items at each other.

Destroying and Spotting enemies still counts as player interaction. Unless you think enemies are not players.
Should have phrased that better, the 'Optional slot' is not optional, though I guess choosing no gadget could be possible for some alternate reason. Slots 3 and 4 are permanent and cannot be modified.

And yes its obvious that taking out tanks, firing mortars etc is very useful. The scope of this post was to enhance consistency of the expected roles of support and medic, i.e resupplier, repair dude, healer and reviver.

This is of course a matter of perception but the amount of times I have seen people whining about medics not having syringes or ammo for support is insane.

It also eliminates the hobsons choice of always having to choose 'obvious' gadgets such as syringe over a Smoke Rifle grenade.

Definitely would increase class power. Whether that is warranted or not, I am not sure as both classes are already potent. Just find it odd that we to be forced into choosing the more useful option over something that is potentially VERY useful but occurs much less frequently, e.g Repairing a Landship, Stealing tanks, Firing smoke grenades, Firing HE as AT weapon.

Posts: 107

Date of registration
: Dec 20th 2016

Platform: PC

Location: Malta

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

Wednesday, May 17th 2017, 8:30am

### Quoted from "BleedingUranium"

I love the concept and intentions, though if this is a little complex (certainly for BF1 at this point), a much simpler solution would be to have more general restrictions for each gadget slot.

Every gadget should be assigned to either Slot 1 or Slot 2, but not both. Similar to weapon presets, this would help funnel players into useful choices; Mortar & Limpet shouldn't be a thing, but Ammo & Ammo really shouldn't either. No one runs the latter, but it's still and example of a possible and dumb setup. This would also help with balancing certain problem or potentially-problem combinations, either that are too powerful as they are, or are especially powerful together, and in that sense preventing either from being buffed.

Assault
Slot 1: Rocket Gun, AT Grenades
Slot 2: Dynamite, Mines

Medic:
Slot 1: Syringe
Slot 2: Rifle Grenade, Health Pack, Health Box

Support
Slot 1: Limpet, Crossbow, Mortar
Slot 2: Repair Wrench, Ammo Pack, Ammo Box

Scout
Slot 1: K-Bullets, Tripwire Bombs, Shield, Decoy
Slot 2: Flare Gun, Periscope
It could be that it is too complex, but I think the description makes it seem much more complex than it actually is. Your proposal is interesting as it forces the choice of either a box or pouch but it still has a few issues that I tried to address.

One of which is Support Slot 2. Guarantee that repair tool usage would remain pretty much the same were such a system be implemented.

My primary concern is whether or not it is possible to fit the extra slot onto a controller. Need to check if selecting Grenades and the Knife was possible on console as the PC version allowed for them to be selected as wield able items (5 Grenade, 6 QTE Simulator Knife).

EDIT: Assuming that Syringe and Repair tool are context sensitive gadgets, the need for an extra 5th slot would not exist. The 4th slot would simply be the offensive or functional gadget, e.g. Mortars, Rifle Grenade SMK.

A small sidenote, perhaps even having the ability to forgo a sidearm completely in favor of an extra gadget? That would be interesting, even if its widespread adaption would be rare, especially if using a low capacity weapon like the 1906 or Shotguns.

Posts: 794

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: Dec 3rd 2014

Platform: PS4

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Reputation modifier: 9

Wednesday, May 17th 2017, 9:19am

If the repair tool became a support melee weapon, one way to get around tanks with 3 reps becoming invincible would be to just change it so that multiple reps add no extra benefit. Only one rep at a time.

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Posts: 6,946

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Battlelog:

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Wednesday, May 17th 2017, 9:27am

### Quoted from "Hau_ruck"

If the repair tool became a support melee weapon, one way to get around tanks with 3 reps becoming invincible would be to just change it so that multiple reps add no extra benefit. Only one rep at a time.

### Source code

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RepairToolStackingMultipliers::array
member(0) 1.0
member(1) 0.7
member(2) 0.55
member(3) 0.4625
member(4) 0.4
member(5) 0.35
member(6) 0.314
member(7) 0.2875
member(8) 0.2667
member(9) 0.25
member(10) 0.2364
member(11) 0.225
member(12) 0.2154
member(13) 0.2071
member(14) 0.2

From the FT.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.

Are you a scrub?

### Quoted from "blahdy"

If it flies, it dies™.

Holy War? No Thanks.

Posts: 2,574

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: Jul 25th 2013

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Wednesday, May 17th 2017, 11:15am

So each repair guy (of 3) would repair at 46% efficiency, do I read that right?

Can't get a title

Posts: 1,530

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: Dec 23rd 2013

Platform: Xbox One

Location: The Land of Multitudinous Kangaroos

Reputation modifier: 12

Wednesday, May 17th 2017, 11:49am

### Quoted from "VincentNZ"

So each repair guy (of 3) would repair at 46% efficiency, do I read that right?

55% each, for a total of 0.55 * 3 = 1.65x faster repair rate.
something something Model 8 bestgun

### Quoted from "Pastafarianism"

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

### Quoted from "Pastafarianism"

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:

Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

### Quoted from "Pastafarianism"

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

### Quoted from "Zer0Cod3x"

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

### Quoted from "Pastafarianism"

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

### Quoted from "Veritable"

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

### Quoted from "Pastafarianism"

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.

Posts: 63

Date of registration
: Feb 1st 2017

Platform: PS4

Location: Somewhere safe and boring

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 1

Wednesday, May 17th 2017, 4:40pm

I would say make medical/Ammo box/pouch a permanent tool for medic and support. But instead of taking their own slot, They are in their own slot and have key other than 3/4 on pc or left/right on console. Player can choose between box or pouch for their playstyle. For me, I would said They replace the big map with it. (big map can go back to bf4 way). As for gadget slot, I would say Medic will have syringe and support will have wrench. Both are permanently bond. Rest will be players choices.
For Assault, I would make big AT nade no longer a gadget But a nade choices for Assault. To make it up, When assault choose small AT nade, They will get 3 instead of 1 for other class with reduce damage compare to when use by other class. Big AT nade is still two, but will do less damage.
I personally have nothing for scout beside make flare gun a must have for them.

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: Dec 7th 2011

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Wednesday, May 17th 2017, 4:55pm

I am not the servant of other players and if I choose to revive/heal/resupply/repair, I do it for my own reasons and not because of what name DICE gave to the class I'm playing at the moment. If I want to use a fully offensive loadout that's up to me as well. If you want heals/ammo then you could consided changing class and doing it yourself.
bob