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NoctyrneSAGA

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81

Friday, May 19th 2017, 10:44pm



Added a crosshair.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

TheMightyVoice

The Pantless Messiah Returns

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82

Tuesday, May 23rd 2017, 1:00am

If a boat has 15 large holes in the hull, you don't drop it in the middle of the ocean to test it.

Alternatively, you can see if the boat is seaworthy (which it clearly isn't) to prove to those who say it is that they are full of shit wrong.


Like with Ammo 2.0? :D

I mean, I get it, this is the same argument that we made when we say you do not implement a core mechanic in the middle of the dev cycle. Hmm I do not know, we have the precedence for that and I do not know if the outcome for random v-rec would indeed be received as drastic as ammo 2.0.

Still we argue here that certain stuff does not need to be in the game. the CTE however is not the real game, it is a test environment and should be treated as such. People look at the CTE and suddenly think it is some sort of crystal ball that tells the future of gaming, which it clearly is not. This is partly DICE's fault, I remember test videos for BF3 which consisted of a four-room wall, where all you would do is revive a teammate for hours. The Test Environment is for testing not for playing. Might as well use it as such.
There is a difference between a boat being full of holes and a boat having one or two small holes that can be patched easily while a loud idiot in the back of the boat screams "WE'RE SINKING, WE'RE SINKING! ABANDON SHIP!"
Eat your heart out, Badger.

Spoiler Spoiler


<elementofprgress> yummm baby jesus
<elementofprgress> but i'd prefer jesus with ketchup

<cloon> women are allowed to play hockey?
<daddygreeenjeans> body checks are a fundamental part of women's suffrage

<Riesig> "... I'M GAY..."

steamboat28: the doctors at the ER found my nipples, too!
steamboat28: it just..y'know...took them a razor and two orderlies.

<Legion> And damn, now I really want some [redacted] penetrator measurements

<Rezal> peipin, why did you tell them you brought your phone?
<Pepin_the_Short> Because there’s like a one in five chance of getting searched on the way out
<Pepin_the_Short> And trying to sneak the fucker out is way worse than letting them look at Cloon’s dick pics.

17:52:08 <Rezal> Unfortunately, this video is not available in your country because it could contain music, for which we could not agree on conditions of use with GEMA.
17:52:15 <ToTheSun> lolgema
17:52:15 <TheMightyVoice> lolgema

<Legion> But I literally am Hitler right now
Somehow my bullets are magnetically attracted to popular Youtubers, but theirs rarely seem to hit me.

VincentNZ

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83

Tuesday, May 23rd 2017, 10:24am

If a boat has 15 large holes in the hull, you don't drop it in the middle of the ocean to test it.

Alternatively, you can see if the boat is seaworthy (which it clearly isn't) to prove to those who say it is that they are full of shit wrong.


Like with Ammo 2.0? :D

I mean, I get it, this is the same argument that we made when we say you do not implement a core mechanic in the middle of the dev cycle. Hmm I do not know, we have the precedence for that and I do not know if the outcome for random v-rec would indeed be received as drastic as ammo 2.0.

Still we argue here that certain stuff does not need to be in the game. the CTE however is not the real game, it is a test environment and should be treated as such. People look at the CTE and suddenly think it is some sort of crystal ball that tells the future of gaming, which it clearly is not. This is partly DICE's fault, I remember test videos for BF3 which consisted of a four-room wall, where all you would do is revive a teammate for hours. The Test Environment is for testing not for playing. Might as well use it as such.
There is a difference between a boat being full of holes and a boat having one or two small holes that can be patched easily while a loud idiot in the back of the boat screams "WE'RE SINKING, WE'RE SINKING! ABANDON SHIP!"


You lost me there. I personally think that random vertical recoil is not a big deal, maybe something worth testing, but I will not lose sleep over it. It is a small detail, that could turn down the "need" for visual recoil and the exaggerated spread in BF1. I think it could potentially make the gunplay feel more natural again.
Ammo 2.0 however I found was the implementation of a totally new mechanic that strikes at the foundation of the game, introduced in the middle of the dev cycle. Well, introduced in the Test environment anyway. So in the end nobody should care about what makes it into CTE, so why not use the CTE for testing again and not as a marketing stunt that backfires?

In any case, yeah BF1 has a lot of issues, I do not think that 25k player per day on PC is somewhat desirable 6 months after release, but there is nothing really that can be done here. Many features that made it into the game, but are potentially bad, like the vehicle spawn system, the warp-in squad spawning, the poor menus and UI, poor server suport and a dozen other things, are here to stay, they will never change. ALso things like negative spread and FSSM as well as the art design flaws with the low visibility. And there is still the general direction that nobody knows about, and that I question for the next game. Is their vision really to create an Overfieldbattlewatch or was it just a design experiment to implement cross-genre features? Will the next game be even more focused around "skill"? Is this what DICE thinks of competitive?

If we want to stay in the metaphor, I daresay the ship is already sunk and we are all crusoeing our ass on a lonely island trying to make a shelter with palm leaves. At least someone saved a volleybal.

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84

Tuesday, May 23rd 2017, 11:30am

Ammo regen doesn't make Battlefield into Overfieldbattlewatch any more than health regen makes it Halofield. Or any other game that feature either of those mechanics.

We've even got it already (partially).

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Things I support
ammo regen pls

Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

_____

When I play with it [Autoloading 8] I feel like I am batman taking out 1 after 1 baddie while they feel helpless and don't know who is talking out their mates.
Remove 3D spotting. It’s a mechanic that rewards bad eyesight.
Wanna help your team by sneaking through enemy territory to provide spawns? THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK FGT I HOPE YOU RUN OUT OF MOTION BALLS TOO EARLY TO BE SUCCESSFUL
Wanna be Javelin squad but only have two guys? BETTER NOT GET YOUR SOFLAM KILLED FGT THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK WITHOUT A SUPPORT DUDE DROPPING AMMO ON YOU EVERY 2 MINUTES
Please post your best M1916 clips Magazines *fixed*.

Cool/Useful Links

What Makes the Best Player?
David Sirlin on Intuition
Archive - Wait But Why - I recommend the posts on AI, and Neuralink, in that order. They are long, but very interesting. Just skim parts of them.

Symthic Databrowser
Battlefield 1 DeployTimes

DICE pls (Feedback and ideas)

Squadmate Healthbars in the HUD
Minor console QoL improvements
Ping Tool idea
"Wants to talk" tag for squad menu
Adding Suppression Confirmation
Spotting improvements
Why the scoring system should be replaced + Suggestion for a reworked scoring system

VincentNZ

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85

Tuesday, May 23rd 2017, 12:18pm

Ammo regen doesn't make Battlefield into Overfieldbattlewatch any more than health regen makes it Halofield. Or any other game that feature either of those mechanics.

We've even got it already (partially).


Nah I was talking generally. I am not concerned about Ammo 2.0 specifically, because it will never be on live. Yeah regenerating ammo is part of it, but I am more concerned about stuff like renting servers from DICE, minimal customization options, more Origin tie-ins as well as the half-assed focus on competitive mechanics which are not really competitive because the rest of the game is not tailored to it. More specialized "builds" through, weapons, gadgets and so forth instead of a more general approach etc.. I guess they will also scrap the chat or at least introduce a swear filter, too. So I am more concerned about the future of the franchise, especially when I see that so many ideas that were brought up here before, which I genuinely disliked seemed to be a topic when developing the game.

On the other hand, I have known Battlefield to include many features and things from other games and genres and failing to make something meaningful out of it. Singleplayer campaign of BF4 comes to mind or the Coop from BF3 (which I did find appealing), or the specialization of kits and regenerative ammo. What I find apparent with BF1 is that they try to introduce new things, but do not go the full distance on it, so we are left with half a game. Half-competitive, half-new, half-old- half-casual and therefore half-fun, too, because they only went half-way in all.

I would say DICE looked at BF4, how it was played and came to the conclusion, that the players need to change to play the new game and not adjust the game so it fits the player.

TheMightyVoice

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86

Wednesday, May 24th 2017, 8:48am

You don't need to waste developer and player time in the test environment just to see if further randomizing which way the player's screen shakes while firing is a reasonable addition. There's already so many different viable balance metrics, the addition of another one further increases the knowledge gap between those in the know and those not for more or less zero benefit. Why do it in the first place? Because some people don't like spread as a mechanic but can't construct an argument as to why it should be removed. To this end, any alternative, no matter how flawed, seems a suitable replacement.

To your other comment on ammo regen, I genuinely hope you aren't naive enough to think that ammo regen or the CTE as a whole is a marketing stunt. Vast amounts of change in BF4 were resultant from the CTE. Had BF4 not reached EOL, it would have seen even more change that was tested and fine tuned on the CTE. Beside that, claiming that ammo regen "strikes at the foundation of the game" shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what the core of the game even is, and seems to me to be a complete overreaction devoid of rationale.

Yes, there was a focus from some aspects of the development team on optimizing the game for decent competitive play. Surprisingly, DICE Sweden and DICE LA combined are an absolutely massive pair of development teams and not everyone shares exactly the same vision. How shocking. BF1 isn't losing player count because of things like negative spread, it's losing player count because of the distance between meaningful updates, expansions, the setting of the game itself being a bone thrown at a bunch of people who didn't know how much they actually didn't want a WW1 game, and some divisions of the developer teams having their priorities out of whack (ie: the game not releasing with private servers). Some people dropped the ball, shit happens. The solution isn't reverting the game back to BF3 with more screen shake.
Eat your heart out, Badger.

Spoiler Spoiler


<elementofprgress> yummm baby jesus
<elementofprgress> but i'd prefer jesus with ketchup

<cloon> women are allowed to play hockey?
<daddygreeenjeans> body checks are a fundamental part of women's suffrage

<Riesig> "... I'M GAY..."

steamboat28: the doctors at the ER found my nipples, too!
steamboat28: it just..y'know...took them a razor and two orderlies.

<Legion> And damn, now I really want some [redacted] penetrator measurements

<Rezal> peipin, why did you tell them you brought your phone?
<Pepin_the_Short> Because there’s like a one in five chance of getting searched on the way out
<Pepin_the_Short> And trying to sneak the fucker out is way worse than letting them look at Cloon’s dick pics.

17:52:08 <Rezal> Unfortunately, this video is not available in your country because it could contain music, for which we could not agree on conditions of use with GEMA.
17:52:15 <ToTheSun> lolgema
17:52:15 <TheMightyVoice> lolgema

<Legion> But I literally am Hitler right now
Somehow my bullets are magnetically attracted to popular Youtubers, but theirs rarely seem to hit me.

VincentNZ

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87

Wednesday, May 24th 2017, 10:54am

Yep, I think the CTE is a marketing stunt, I said so a dozen times. Yeah, BF4 progressed through CTE, but that just made the testing public. It also gave everyone the illusion of having a say in the development of the game, which I have a huge problem with. The game should the result of the devs unified vision, although in a franchise as big as that, players have certain expectations. Creating the CTE opened up a dangerous precedent, that surfaced when Ammo 2.0 was brought up. Now I think it was a flawed system and brought nothing to the table, but suddenly the community did not want it either. Before they had avoided direct conflict on that level, but with a totally new mechanic they hit the boundaries of what the players tolerated.
So then they were in a dilemma, although Ammo 2.0 was likely a hot potato internally as well: Should they drop the mechanic and heed the masses, or should they follow their design concept and direction? This is indeed dangerous.

The CTE is a nice thing for basic stuff and small improvements like the Defib timer and the hertz update. Stuff that nobody could argue were wrong or polarizing, but have marginal effects on the whole. Weapon balance is a rational thing to do here as well. But now it is all out in public and every major move is closely watched. It also creates the illusion that everything needs to go through CTE or that CTE is the only place where they test stuff. A lot of testing is still done internally (it has to) and some people in the community have more say or influence over the development, for good and bad.

By the way, Ammo 2.0 would change a core and foundation mechanic. Active resupply has been in the game since ever, after all, if I am not mistaken.

I also never said BF1 was losing players because of singular aspects, but because of a plethora of issues that make the game unfun and the feeling that the games is missing a sense of direction. Missing stuff like server support, a terrible UI and similar things make it even harder to cope with things like the flawed conquest system, overspecialization, feature bloat and shooting mechanics. Basically BF1 is a gumbo, and not a very tasty one.

NoctyrneSAGA

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88

Wednesday, May 24th 2017, 11:10am

Active resupply has been in the game since ever, after all, if I am not mistaken.


So has Passive.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

VincentNZ

Holy War? No Thanks.

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: Jul 25th 2013

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89

Wednesday, May 24th 2017, 11:14am

Active resupply has been in the game since ever, after all, if I am not mistaken.


So has Passive.


Indeed? Can you elaborate? Apart from unlimited ammo and med boxes I can not think of any weapons or gadgets that passively resupplied themselves. Did stationary weapons regenerate ammo in Bf1942-2142?

NoctyrneSAGA

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: Apr 3rd 2012

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90

Wednesday, May 24th 2017, 11:23am

Apart from unlimited ammo and med boxes I can not think of any weapons or gadgets that passively resupplied themselves.


Those two are the most historic examples.

The Defibrillator, SUAV, UCAV, and Mortar in BF4 all passively regenerate.

The point is passive has been around pretty much as long as active has.

Sure it was limited, but it was still there.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.