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: Dec 26th 2015

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71

Friday, May 19th 2017, 3:36am

Why is there so much hate for the bayonet and melee for that matter?

It's Dice's take on WW1, and they've taken some liberties with the era to make a game that's fun for more than just an elite few. Where the average soldier in WW1 had a bolt action rifle, in BF1 there are enough fully automatic weapons to go around. Early WW1 proved that over the trench bayonet charges were ineffective, and more maneuverable rifles are better than the actual "reach" of the bayonet on the end of the rifle. The charging spear idea died with WW1 for good reason. When you have enough soldiers, or automatic weapons, soldiers can't get close enough for a bayonet charge to be effective. On top of that, melee combat was a large part of infantry combat in the first world war.

It's also the last time that bayonets were used in such a large scale.

However, it is a balancing mechanic of sorts. Newbie players can get kills against more skilled enemies. It happens. But I don't think it makes up for anything close to a majority of kills against them.
Melee kills make up 20% of my total kills, so I'm definitely biased here. (44% bayonet 28% hatchet, 10% shovel, 18% all other melee)
Does this make me an unstoppable killing machine? Heck no. My best killing spree is 19, and 16 of those were hatchet kills (support class if anyone wondered). And I haven't been able to get close to that again. Surprise and positioning, it works for both ranged weapons and melee.
Edit: For the record, my K/D is 1.09
I love the math behind the statistics
It's possible to find me online at almost any given time, due to the fact that my schedule is hectic and rather non-existent.

Who needs sleep anyways?
(PC/PS4 gamer)

Various bf4 spreadsheets: (nothing special, just raw data from the Symthic website put into a spreadsheet to analyze all values at once)

Spoiler Spoiler


General Weapon spreadsheet:
BF4_Weapons_enhanced_UPDATED_2016
Soldier Equipment:
BF4_Gadget_Damage
Interactive Damage Table
bf4_dmg_at_range - Google Sheets
Unsuppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Charts
bf4_sniper_guide
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Suppressed bf4_sniper_guide
More user friendly Unsuppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Chart
Friendlier Sniper rifle Bullet Drop Chart
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Friendlier Suppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Chart

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: Oct 5th 2013

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72

Monday, May 22nd 2017, 10:21pm

I don't get it either. People here pretend like it's MW2's knife.

I'm not even mad if someone manages to gets me with the bayonet. Hell, they deserved the kill.

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: Oct 8th 2016

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73

Wednesday, May 24th 2017, 3:07am

It's new, there is little counter play, and it's drawbacks don't help out the target. Plus it violates what people think should happen in video game, meaning that it is easy to attack as unrealistic.

VincentNZ

Holy War? No Thanks.

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74

Wednesday, May 24th 2017, 11:01am

Yeah I do not understand the fuzz either. I use the bayonet a lot, and it makes up about 2% of my kills. Combined with all melee it is sitting at 6%. Marginal to the point of being irrelevant. But people claim it can not be countered (shooting that guy before he reaches you does not seem to count), and as a mechanic it can kind of be exploited by some people, that can turn on the spot, which is another marginal fraction of the encounters. And from there it just gets bloated, suddenly you are inevitably killed by a guy who charged at you for 50m straight or you stand in the middle of the room when someone charges in and kills you. So stuff that is clearly not the bayonet's fault.
And then they totally forget the times they tried to charge and got killed directly.

Bloated. All of it.

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: Dec 2nd 2013

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75

Thursday, May 25th 2017, 2:24am

I understand that DICE wanted to make melee a much bigger part of the game for the WWI theme. But quite honestly, it feels like one of the most cheesiest and inconsistent implementations of melee in the BF franchise since BC2.

Melee autolocking and granting an inescapable death cutscene for anyone below a health threshold; this is really quite abuseable with revolver sidearms by doing a single shot + F key. Or spamming the light melee knives while circle strafing someone who's desperately trying to shoot you. These all sound obnoxiously powerful, right?

So when you start employing these same tactics, suddenly things like people being able to trade bullet shots with your melee execution animation, dropping an inescapable grenade right at the beginning of the exection, or my all time favorite since the netcode "fix" patch, melee TRADING, can make melee an incredibly frustrating experience. And this is before we even get to bayonets.

With bayonets, the people on the end experiencing them usually can't hear them approaching, get hit by one meant for another target (always something to be wary of if you're hanging around an Elite), unable to kill them due to the current damage reduction, or get the infamous 2m bayonet charge. When you actually use bayonets yourself hoping to cheese enemies the same way you were, you literally brush past your targets instead (again, happening a lot since the netcode "fix" on servers with 80-100ms), you can even get traded with someone using ordinary melee!


I would really like all of this to just be done away, like Behemoths and other things that spoil BF1 for me.

NoctyrneSAGA

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76

Thursday, May 25th 2017, 2:37am

Melee autolocking and granting an inescapable death cutscene for anyone below a health threshold; this is really quite abuseable with revolver sidearms by doing a single shot + F key. Or spamming the light melee knives while circle strafing someone who's desperately trying to shoot you. These all sound obnoxiously powerful, right?


The lock at the proper health threshold is something I like though. If it'd kill you, why not play the takedown?

Something I would've liked in MGO3 where a takedown would only happen at a low enough health. Good way to make CQC smoother than having to repeatedly throw someone.

Also the knife is meant to be wielded like that. It's why it has such a fast fire rate. You're in range for a knife fight and you choose to use a knife. You are properly leveraging your range advantage.

As for melee trades, the melee projectile has spawn delay. If you fire it before you're in the animation, the projectile will eventually emerge after the delay. This is how it is possible to escape melee animations.

As for the 2m bayonet charge, that's an animation issue. 2m is not actually possible to initiate a charge, it's just that players aren't properly shown going through the motions. The sound is also getting fixed.



Rather than scrap the entire system, why not actually fix the problems?

The only improvement I really want is for there to be hitboxes instead of reskinned guns.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

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: Dec 2nd 2013

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77

Thursday, May 25th 2017, 3:06am

It's not the takedown animation I have a problem with, which I actually like. It's a serious gamble to do a frontal takedown, because it locks you in place and makes you vulnerable to enemy teammates. What I have issue with is the takedown animation playing, and then getting killed during the process when you think you are getting a guaranteed kill. And yes, that is due to the melee weapon being treated as a projectile for some strange reason

What I'm advocating for is more consistency across how takedowns actually reward kills. This was really never an issue in BF4 because the cases were so rare (doing an execution from the side/behind an enemy and getting shot before you could actually deal the finishing blow), or that they just simply never happened (frontal takedowns initiated a counter quicktime event, which usually spelled doom for the initiating guy and discouraged them in the first place).

Frontal takedowns not actually rewarding kills because the initiating player gets shot by the guy he's doing the takedown on during the animation, among other incredibly frustrating things that I've listed, is a can of worms that should've been addressed before this system was implemented. If you struggle to implement a new system right, either fix it ASAP or don't do it at all.


Quoted

Also the knife is meant to be wielded like that. It's why it has such a fast fire rate. You're in range for a knife fight and you choose to use a knife. You are properly leveraging your range advantage.

I have absolutely no problem with someone spamming a knife in close quarters, but target lockon is entirely unneeded and makes it much easier to accomplish the task. We don't need training wheels to help someone in a CQC fight, and if you can't keep up with a shifting target trying to evade you, then you deserve to be shot/meleed back.

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: Oct 8th 2016

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78

Thursday, May 25th 2017, 3:57am

I understand that DICE wanted to make melee a much bigger part of the game for the WWI theme. But quite honestly, it feels like one of the most cheesiest and inconsistent implementations of melee in the BF franchise since BC2.
The only system where the melee was useful?

Melee autolocking and granting an inescapable death cutscene for anyone below a health threshold; this is really quite abuseable with revolver sidearms by doing a single shot + F key. Or spamming the light melee knives while circle strafing someone who's desperately trying to shoot you. These all sound obnoxiously powerful, right?

No? Why should the other guy win, he's got a gun that has a higher
overall DPS and longer range? And the revolver plus 55 melee swing isn't
that much better than shooting twice. the swing requires less precision
but has less range, plus missing the first shot punishes the player
much more than having to fire a third.
So when you start employing these same tactics, suddenly things like people being able to trade bullet shots with your melee execution animation, dropping an inescapable grenade right at the beginning of the exection, or my all time favorite since the netcode "fix" patch, melee TRADING, can make melee an incredibly frustrating experience. And this is before we even get to bayonets.
With bayonets, the people on the end experiencing them usually can't hear them approaching, get hit by one meant for another target (always something to be wary of if you're hanging around an Elite), unable to kill them due to the current damage reduction, or get the infamous 2m bayonet charge. When you actually use bayonets yourself hoping to cheese enemies the same way you were, you literally brush past your targets instead (again, happening a lot since the netcode "fix" on servers with 80-100ms), you can even get traded with someone using ordinary melee!
The poorly working sound system, the bugs, the netcode and the UI issues is proof that all we're doing is rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. I would advise against preordering COD:WWII.


That aside, this is confirmation bias and complaining about something has a skill gap. Of course you can't always get the kill with a bayonet when you charge someone.

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79

Thursday, May 25th 2017, 9:27am

And the revolver plus 55 melee swing isn't that much better than shooting twice. the swing requires less precision

And that's why melee is incredibly powerful in this game. You don't really need to aim as well in CQC if you're doing 1 shot with a revolver and mashing F immediately, as opposed to doing 2 shots. Hitting someone with the knife 3x is a lot easier if you have autolock.

I'm not looking for a high skill, in-depth melee system in Battlefield, and I think most people here aren't either. Not that I'm against such a mechanic in FPSes, I've got 650 hours in Dirty Bomb where melee and gunplay in CQC are equally dangerous. I just don't really care for it here; as BleedingUranium said, melee was the best in BF4 as a humiliation/pseudo-stealthy takedown.


Quoted

The poorly working sound system, the bugs, the netcode and the UI issues is proof that all we're doing is rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. I would advise against preordering COD:WWII.

That aside, this is confirmation bias and complaining about something has a skill gap. Of course you can't always get the kill with a bayonet when you charge someone.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but melee in BF1 hardly has this skillgap that you tout it having. You might consider it skillful if you start a bayonet charge 20m around a corner to take out a sentry, but the same melee system also lets people do "2m bayonets" when caught 5m away with an enemy in front of them. Not to mention bayonets completely failing to land when you actually collide with a player but failing to perform the takedown animation, so you "dust" him instead.

Also, what's with the "preordering COD:WWII" comment? Genuinely curious why you'd say that

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80

Yesterday, 3:44am

Darn it, I had a post here. must've closed the tab or something before my post went through.

My comment on Cod was because I feel that Triple A multiplayer focused FPS titles are probably going to flop soon. I feel that the shift back to historical times didn't pan out for BF1, despite basically giving people what they want. I feel that COD:WWII is probably going to fall into a similar trap. But I should create a new thread to expand my thoughts fully.