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Bayonet Balancing Idea: Dynamic Movement Angle

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tankmayvin

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61

Saturday, May 13th 2017, 3:04am

Quoted from "JSLICE20"

They invested effort into the melee system 'because WWI', I'm sure of it. Any other setting, except maybe WWII or guerilla warfare, probably wouldn't focus on melee all that much.


Melee was relevant in WW1 because when attacks successfully reached a trenchline the fighting was inside of the machine gun envelope, and involved masses of infantry fighting VERY close, often with meters of line of sight and almost everyone was carrying a bolt-action rifle.

BF1 has so many automatic weapons and so little trench fighting that melee is irrelevant. You're quite right that they put so much effort "because WW1", but it fails in the same way that the mg stations on the tanks fail, it was done "because WW1!" without considering if it would work in a battlefield.

What ends up happening is that melee is only relevant in panic situations when you run face to face with someone point blank range in a building, etc in 1v1 situations. Or you get hosed down by follow ons while locked into a finishing animation.

BF1 zerging is outfitted the way mid-late war soviet assault infantry was: almost exclusively submachine guns and an assload of grenades. Melee irrelevant.

JSLICE20

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62

Saturday, May 13th 2017, 3:42am

Melee will always be second to shooting or blowing things up in shooters (unless you're COD, then melee can take precedence), but that doesn't mean developers will ignore the impact it had in real life and choose not to expand on the previous system.

BF1 = traditional Battlefield + true WWI elements (not the true experience)
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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Prepare your laughbox

Quoted from "Zer0Cod3x"

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho

My "Contributions"

Gun Sway Modifiers (Hidden Attachments in Variants)
Gadget, Stationary, and Vehicle Weaponry Stats (Pre-Official)

tankmayvin

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63

Saturday, May 13th 2017, 4:29am

Quoted from "JSLICE20"

Melee will always be second to shooting or blowing things up in shooters (unless you're COD, then melee can take precedence), but that doesn't mean developers will ignore the impact it had in real life and choose not to expand on the previous system.

BF1 = traditional Battlefield + true WWI elements (not the true experience)


And melee and grenades would make much more sensible design elements if they had real things like draw times. If you're in melee range, the panic knife will always beat the pistol exclusively because of it's instant effect and auto-aiming features. The fact that you cannot use your small arm as a means of blocking, etc is fundamentally flawed.

Melee is at a very fundamental level a half-baked mechanic in BF1, and it clearly shows.

Hot-button spamming to win 1v1s is just not a good mechanic, why anyone even thought it could possibly be a good mechanic, or constitute a "complete reworking of the Battlefield melee system", is beyond me.

JSLICE20

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64

Saturday, May 13th 2017, 4:48am

Instant melee has existed since BF3, at least on console. Even then the only appropriate time to melee was in a takedown situation. Also, they're adjusting the auto-aim facet of melee in the CTE for an upcoming patch to make it so that the user has to be more precise and actually aim at the opposing player.

Okay, blocking/ countering with your sidearm would be more realistic, yes, but then we get locked into an extended 1v1, fighting-game-esque battle where you have counters for counters for counters and eventually just get shot from another party.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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No Slowdown Data

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No Auto Rotation Data

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Prepare your laughbox

Quoted from "Zer0Cod3x"

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho

My "Contributions"

Gun Sway Modifiers (Hidden Attachments in Variants)
Gadget, Stationary, and Vehicle Weaponry Stats (Pre-Official)

tankmayvin

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65

Saturday, May 13th 2017, 7:07pm

Quoted from "JSLICE20"

Instant melee has existed since BF3, at least on console. Even then the only appropriate time to melee was in a takedown situation. Also, they're adjusting the auto-aim facet of melee in the CTE for an upcoming patch to make it so that the user has to be more precise and actually aim at the opposing player.

Okay, blocking/ countering with your sidearm would be more realistic, yes, but then we get locked into an extended 1v1, fighting-game-esque battle where you have counters for counters for counters and eventually just get shot from another party.


That's my point. Melee has been shitty in BF for a long time (in fact it's never been good, but at least before it was showboat dogtag stealing, not a credible CQB spam tactic). I am totally fine with melee being totally deprecated to ambush situations or elite class flavour abilities precisely because it is not good, and will likely never be good because of the lack of dev investment in it and making it coherently balanced with overall combat when you have semi auto shotguns and 900-1000 rpm facemelters.

BleedingUranium

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Saturday, May 13th 2017, 8:50pm

Exactly. I've never seen an FPS integrate melee into combat in anything close to a good way. From BC2 through BF1, the only melee system I approve of is BF4's; melee needs to be stealth and humiliation only, at least until they get away from the cancer that is hot-button melee. And grenades, for that matter.
Who has fun, wins.

Oscar

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Saturday, May 13th 2017, 10:00pm

Quoted from "BleedingUranium"

Exactly. I've never seen an FPS integrate melee into combat in anything close to a good way. From BC2 through BF1, the only melee system I approve of is BF4's; melee needs to be stealth and humiliation only, at least until they get away from the cancer that is hot-button melee. And grenades, for that matter.

Melee isn't even stealth thanks to killfeed and ally death icons.

Yeah you don't hear much, because you can definitely hear suppressed weapons if there's not much going on, but it's easy to tell someone died due to all the info provided to you.
Bro of Legion, the lurker ninja mod | Tesla FTW | RNG is evil.

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I find majority of the complaints I hear about this game somehow never appear in my games.

VincentNZ

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68

Saturday, May 13th 2017, 10:34pm

@tankmayvin

Thanks, the same to you, although, if you already submitted your work you are very likely content with it and that is all that we can hope for. :D I am still probably a year away from finishing. It sure feels like I am livng directly on my keyboard. :D

Yeah I liked your analogy, I do find it interesting though how players perceive and weigh the different skillsets. I take a ton of issues with the melee system as well, although I am not too bothered about it since it makes up so little of the franchise. I do like the fact though, that in this game, that emphasizes so much on the motoric skillset, there is a mechanic that switches the focus.

A problem surely also is that people mix up bayonets, takedowns and the stab animations and therefore merge all the problems, instead of treating each one differently. Still for me melee altogether is maybe 7% of my killcount, really hard to measure if frustration levels would decrease.

BleedingUranium

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Saturday, May 13th 2017, 10:41pm

Quoted from "Oscar"

Melee isn't even stealth thanks to killfeed and ally death icons.

Yeah you don't hear much, because you can definitely hear suppressed weapons if there's not much going on, but it's easy to tell someone died due to all the info provided to you.


Which are also things I have a problem with, but that's an entirely separate tangent.
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commandough

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Sunday, May 14th 2017, 12:53am

For whatever reason, Battlefield is the only game except DOOM 2016 that let you control the preanimated takedown you get, so I've always loved the melee system in it.

But yeah, it's not arguable that the melee system has very few ways to improve with practice.

Of course one can still at least suggest ideas, but let's face it, the last big change to FPS gameplay was ADS from Modern Warfare way back in 2007.

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